"Upgrading" from a Diamond to a Valley...

simplestroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Clearly it's not an upgrade but I'm considering getting rid of my Diamond and replacing it with a valley.. Am I crazy? Here’s a bit of background. I’ve taken a bit over a year off and have started back up in league this year. I’ll admit I don’t shoot anywhere near enough to have too high of expectations but I’m slumping bad right now. I have a diamond blue label (7ft) at home that plays great but plays 100% different than the valley bar boxes that ALL games are played on where I’m from. Ex: I had a three ball out last week with ball in hand. 8 ball was on the far short rail and my key ball was on the opposite short rail. Gave myself a perfect angle to come all the way down table off the rail and didn’t even make it past the side pocket. Shooting drills are one thing but actually playing the game (position, safeties, ect.) is drastically different. I feel like all practice (actually playing) is a complete waste of time. I will be the first to admit that this is a “me” problem and not an equipment issue but I feel I would benefit leaps and bounds by getting more table time on what we actually play on. Just curious to get some thoughts?
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Clearly it's not an upgrade but I'm considering getting rid of my Diamond and replacing it with a valley.. Am I crazy? Here’s a bit of background. I’ve taken a bit over a year off and have started back up in league this year. I’ll admit I don’t shoot anywhere near enough to have too high of expectations but I’m slumping bad right now. I have a diamond blue label (7ft) at home that plays great but plays 100% different than the valley bar boxes that ALL games are played on where I’m from. Ex: I had a three ball out last week with ball in hand. 8 ball was on the far short rail and my key ball was on the opposite short rail. Gave myself a perfect angle to come all the way down table off the rail and didn’t even make it past the side pocket. Shooting drills are one thing but actually playing the game (position, safeties, ect.) is drastically different. I feel like all practice (actually playing) is a complete waste of time. I will be the first to admit that this is a “me” problem and not an equipment issue but I feel I would benefit leaps and bounds by getting more table time on what we actually play on. Just curious to get some thoughts?
Get to league early and warm-up on the V. Keep the Diamond.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Foolish to replace a superior piece of equipment with an inferior one. Arive early enough on league nights to get some time in on the table. A decent player should be able to adjust to table conditions and there is no guarantee the Valley you get will play like the Valley used for league.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Foolish to replace a superior piece of equipment with an inferior one. Arive early enough on league nights to get some time in on the table. A decent player should be able to adjust to table conditions and there is no guarantee the Valley you get will play like the Valley used for league.
Unless they have the tight after-market rails all Valleys have pockets like laundry baskets. Hit balls for 5-10 min and you're good.
 

simplestroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great points so far and I agree 100%. If I do decide to go with a Valley I'd most likely still keep my Diamond (in storage room). I need to shoot more plain and simple. All tables will play a little different and I typically don't have any issues adjusting in a short period of time. Just struggling and need more table time on a Valley to get some confidence back.
 

simplestroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So let's put it this way. If all you ever played on was Valley (every league night, every tournament). Wouldn't you rather spend most of your time playing on a Valley?
 

Dimeball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Clearly it's not an upgrade but I'm considering getting rid of my Diamond and replacing it with a valley.. Am I crazy? Here’s a bit of background. I’ve taken a bit over a year off and have started back up in league this year. I’ll admit I don’t shoot anywhere near enough to have too high of expectations but I’m slumping bad right now. I have a diamond blue label (7ft) at home that plays great but plays 100% different than the valley bar boxes that ALL games are played on where I’m from. Ex: I had a three ball out last week with ball in hand. 8 ball was on the far short rail and my key ball was on the opposite short rail. Gave myself a perfect angle to come all the way down table off the rail and didn’t even make it past the side pocket. Shooting drills are one thing but actually playing the game (position, safeties, ect.) is drastically different. I feel like all practice (actually playing) is a complete waste of time. I will be the first to admit that this is a “me” problem and not an equipment issue but I feel I would benefit leaps and bounds by getting more table time on what we actually play on. Just curious to get some thoughts?
banging balls is not practice, it's banging balls and is a waste of time if your goal is to improve. Learn proper fundamentals, pre-shot routine, stance, stroke, timing, etc... then these things have to be repeatable on command. After that, practice is mainly perfecting your stroke, calming your mind, and (most important) focus. These final three are what makes the difference of a three ball run to a several rack run with focus, combining all that you've learned, stroke, eyes, timing, on and on until all that's left is the chess game, the moves.
Just my opinion. Good luck.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It’s in your head. Kind of.

Valley tables are easier because they have bigger and more forgiving pockets.

They are tougher because in a bar league the rails can be dead, balls can be different sizes, cue ball can be a different size or weight and the rails play completely differently than your diamond.

I think the expectations you have about your game are causing frustration and holding you back. With a valley in a bar league you have to play forgiving position. Get the cue ball on the right line and be grateful for long shots at the correct angle.

When you shoot, focus on making the shot and playing a higher percentage position play. And then again, be happy if you have a shot.

Playing on inconsistent equipment I’ve found it helps to make a plan and TRY to stick with it, but also have an attitude like a little kid playing golf. Hit the ball, the run up to it and see what you get to shoot next!

That change in perspective should reduce the frustration and give you breathing room to get confident on those tables.

And obviously, the more time you get on them the better. Go early to leagues, stay late if you can, play tournaments if they have them, etc…

I don’t think you should sell, but if you do… ;)
 
Last edited:

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Silver Member
Yes, you are crazy. Played on Diamonds at home and most leagues. State tourneys are on Valleys and I play like a MF'ing God, Ok, bit of an exaggeration but you get my point ;) lol But, this is with a normal cue ball, not a "mudball". I don't even think anyone uses mud balls anymore, do they ?? I could not run 3 balls with a mudball. And yes, prior to state tourney, I find a bar with a Valley and go there for a week or two straight getting ready.

My confidence level jumps so high on a Valley, I truly believe I can't miss, and the only way to lose is bad shape, so I only play for the long shots, and attempt to run out from anywhere. I'm usually a safety, defensive player, as I do not mind battling in a long game to get the win. But, at state tourney, I'm 10 times more aggressive and the Valley is the reason. I hate them but love them at the same time. She's like a former hot, girlfriend but who is off her meds ;)

I just just moved and ordered a 9 foot AE Schmidt table that won't be ready till Feb. Then I'm going to add a 7 foot diamond, and eventually throw in a Valley down the road just for kicks and giggles.

So, practice on the Diamond and rob on the Valley. I'm pretty sure I"m not the only one that experiences the "Valley Syndrome" but once your confidence is kicked up, and you start cheating pockets like they are meant to be cheated on a Valley, and you play long position, lots of folks play better on Valley. Some just don't think about that built in advantage enough. My teammates all play good, but not better on a Valley ???

I still prefer to play on a table that you can actually use the cushions more, Valley is tough on going 3 or 4 rails with the cue ball.
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Shooting drills are one thing but actually playing the game (position, safeties, ect.) is drastically different. I feel like all practice (actually playing) is a complete waste of time. ...
There are drills that are a lot like playing. There are safety drills. Maybe you just haven't found a drill/practice/exercise that is good for you. Identify your weaknesses and work on them.
 

jaime_lion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Clearly it's not an upgrade but I'm considering getting rid of my Diamond and replacing it with a valley.. Am I crazy? Here’s a bit of background. I’ve taken a bit over a year off and have started back up in league this year. I’ll admit I don’t shoot anywhere near enough to have too high of expectations but I’m slumping bad right now. I have a diamond blue label (7ft) at home that plays great but plays 100% different than the valley bar boxes that ALL games are played on where I’m from. Ex: I had a three ball out last week with ball in hand. 8 ball was on the far short rail and my key ball was on the opposite short rail. Gave myself a perfect angle to come all the way down table off the rail and didn’t even make it past the side pocket. Shooting drills are one thing but actually playing the game (position, safeties, ect.) is drastically different. I feel like all practice (actually playing) is a complete waste of time. I will be the first to admit that this is a “me” problem and not an equipment issue but I feel I would benefit leaps and bounds by getting more table time on what we actually play on. Just curious to get some thoughts?
Just go to bars. Go to bars and play on all the valley tables. Keep your diamond don't spend any more money than you have to. Why buy a complete other table. I mean what's stopping you from going to the bar you play at everyday after work or when they open or whenever. And playing on the tables every day?
 
Top