"Upgrading" from a Diamond to a Valley...

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Diamond rails are famously fast, and seem even more so on their barbox, imo. I wouldn't fault you for wanting something more conventional. There have been many members on here who got their Valley's playing well, with a new set of balls, simonis cloth, and new rubber cushions.

I'm about an hour from Archer's new room, and want to head there to try out the new Gold Crown Coin bar tables he has. I'd like to see how their rails respond. If they play the same as a full size GC with superspeed cushions, well that would be one great playing barbox.
 

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
Nothing like a fresh start. I say dump the Diamond get the valley and use the left over cash to buy yourself a new cue 😉 😉 you always shoot better with a new cue!
 

chefjeff

Nazis are back.
Silver Member
Keep the diamond. Work on your game. When you get to play on a valley, it's much easier, just shoot pool. If you get out of line, play safe. You'll never find two valleys that play the same, so even if you buy one it won't be like the one you play on at league.

Hey, if he sells me the Diamond at a good price, I'll let you play on it the next time you're in town.

shhhhh


Jeff Livingston
 

chefjeff

Nazis are back.
Silver Member
Nothing like a fresh start. I say dump the Diamond get the valley and use the left over cash to buy yourself a new cue 😉 😉 you always shoot better with a new cue!

I'll pay him enough for the table so he can buy a new cue. I have a mcD in the closet somewhere.


Jeff Livingston
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think you need to figure out what pool means to you personally.

Are you trying to become the best player you can or do you simply enjoy playing pool?

If you're trying to be the best then you need to learn on what the best play on - and that's currently Diamond. (personal opinion - I'd never buy a Diamond - ugliest table ever built - but then I'm not trying to be a pro ;))

If you simply enjoy playing league and improving via attrition (meaning - you don't put REAL time into practice) then there's nothing wrong with a Valley for your use.

Seems like you have some life choices to make ;)
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I just played in a 10 ball tournament in Panama City that uses a heavy magnetic cue ball. WOW, did it screw me up and totally changed the game. I couldn’t draw that ball to s@ve my life🤣


Years ago I couldn't stand playing with a mud ball. Once I learned how to follow the ball more (I am/was a draw guy) it became less terrible to play with them. You also need to really focus on the tangent line with that ball as it like to roll off (go forward of tangent line) way faster than a standard CB.
 

simplestroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you need to figure out what pool means to you personally.

Are you trying to become the best player you can or do you simply enjoy playing pool?

If you're trying to be the best then you need to learn on what the best play on - and that's currently Diamond. (personal opinion - I'd never buy a Diamond - ugliest table ever built - but then I'm not trying to be a pro ;))

If you simply enjoy playing league and improving via attrition (meaning - you don't put REAL time into practice) then there's nothing wrong with a Valley for your use.

Seems like you have some life choices to make ;)
It's just a fun hobby but I'm ultra competitive and still hope my best pool is in front of me. I see a lot of guys that have been shooting league forever who never seem to get better and I don't want that to be me. I envy (somewhat) the guys who are able to play all the local short stop tournaments and shoot a ton at the bars. I don't have that luxury anymore and frankly I prefer spending time with my family. I can shoot at home quite a bit and accomplish both. I've just been finding it harder and harder to adjust after coming off my Diamond. Pocketing balls is the easy part but it's hard to get settled in and comfortable. I slow roll constantly on my table and feel like I play a completely different game. I think the biggest thing is just getting out of time/rhythm. Either way it's in my head a bit.
 

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Years ago I couldn't stand playing with a mud ball. Once I learned how to follow the ball more (I am/was a draw guy) it became less terrible to play with them. You also need to really focus on the tangent line with that ball as it like to roll off (go forward of tangent line) way faster than a standard CB.
The Tangent line is now approximately 70% forward. I scratched a few times trying a 90% tangent line. I didn’t know there was a tournament there much less having to play with a mud ball and no practice time. It’s been 20 years since I played with one. I was pleasantly surprised one of the Dynamo tables played pretty well. The other one, not so much.
 
Just go to bars. Go to bars and play on all the valley tables. Keep your diamond don't spend any more money than you have to. Why buy a complete other table. I mean what's stopping you from going to the bar you play at everyday after work or when they open or whenever. And playing on the tables every day?
Although I don't think a bar is a good place to practice it is a good place to learn to drink better. I like bars fine, but if you want practice, buy the table.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's just a fun hobby but I'm ultra competitive and still hope my best pool is in front of me. I see a lot of guys that have been shooting league forever who never seem to get better and I don't want that to be me. I envy (somewhat) the guys who are able to play all the local short stop tournaments and shoot a ton at the bars. I don't have that luxury anymore and frankly I prefer spending time with my family. I can shoot at home quite a bit and accomplish both. I've just been finding it harder and harder to adjust after coming off my Diamond. Pocketing balls is the easy part but it's hard to get settled in and comfortable. I slow roll constantly on my table and feel like I play a completely different game. I think the biggest thing is just getting out of time/rhythm. Either way it's in my head a bit.

Roger. When I got into pool in 1986 I played almost every day for quite a few years but never put serious time into practice. After about 20 years I got out of pool completely (about 14 years), when I got back into it I was divorced and gave the ex the furniture and put a table in my living room and took the game very seriously and began practicing stroke, tangent, speed, etc. and became fairly proficient (600'sh Fargo) but after a few years the grind of practice and life made me realize I simply enjoy playing the game so I no longer play in leagues or tournaments and just go bang some balls with a couple friends at a local bar. Still have my table (8ft Gandy with narrowed pockets - when people miss at my house I laugh and tell them they should go play on the Diamonds ;)) and I will try to always have a table. I bang balls at home for about 10 hours a week now and simply have a blast.

I will say this - given my age, life experience (hard work ;)) I've come to learn that true practice not only requires very specific focus on very specific situations.

I also remember a recent quote from someone here: The difference between amateurs and pros is - amateur's practice until they make it and pros practice until they don't miss - my mindset falls into the latter :)

The Tangent line is now approximately 70% forward. I scratched a few times trying a 90% tangent line. I didn’t know there was a tournament there much less having to play with a mud ball and no practice time. It’s been 20 years since I played with one. I was pleasantly surprised one of the Dynamo tables played pretty well. The other one, not so much.

Interesting, if I ever get to see one again I'll mess around with that. Since I started focusing on tangent line I've only played with a mud ball once or twice and didn't care enough to get that technical. Thanks for the info.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you are only going to compete on the Valley tables, change the cloth on your diamond to the slower identical cloth that is on the Valleys.
That way you will move the cue ball the same but you will be use to tighter pockets which should help you become a stone cold killer on those local bar tables.
 

simplestroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you are only going to compete on the Valley tables, change the cloth on your diamond to the slower identical cloth that is on the Valleys.
That way you will move the cue ball the same but you will be use to tighter pockets which should help you become a stone cold killer on those local bar tables.
I think that may be a good compromise especially using a valley cue ball.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am in a situation where where we alternate each week between a bar with valleys and a bar with diamonds. The valleys have the tight penguin rails. The diamonds feel like the ball is shot out of a cannon when they come off a rail.

Folks in my league HATE playing on the valleys with the tight pockets. They play much harder than the super fast diamonds. More pockets rejecting the balls, more rattling the pockets, etc.
I feel like the valleys might help you become a straighter shooter, but you can not cheat the pockets at all...
 

Nyquil

Active member
Clearly it's not an upgrade but I'm considering getting rid of my Diamond and replacing it with a valley.. Am I crazy? Here’s a bit of background. I’ve taken a bit over a year off and have started back up in league this year. I’ll admit I don’t shoot anywhere near enough to have too high of expectations but I’m slumping bad right now. I have a diamond blue label (7ft) at home that plays great but plays 100% different than the valley bar boxes that ALL games are played on where I’m from. Ex: I had a three ball out last week with ball in hand. 8 ball was on the far short rail and my key ball was on the opposite short rail. Gave myself a perfect angle to come all the way down table off the rail and didn’t even make it past the side pocket. Shooting drills are one thing but actually playing the game (position, safeties, ect.) is drastically different. I feel like all practice (actually playing) is a complete waste of time. I will be the first to admit that this is a “me” problem and not an equipment issue but I feel I would benefit leaps and bounds by getting more table time on what we actually play on. Just curious to get some thoughts?
Check your rail bolts make sure they are torqued to 15ft pounds. Diamond is superior in every way. They play tougher which is a good thing IMO. People complain about banks I just can't find a problem. I do have a blue label 9ft. I have played on some red's and still find them to play fine on banks. I make more banks then long thin cuts. The pockets is the most frustrating part, but they play true if you miss its valid. Sure it may go in on a valley but their pockets are janky buckets from the ones I have played on. Just my .02 its your $$$ your choice either way. Your diamond will sell quick if its been remotely cared for if you so choose to sale.
 

Konrad

Your wushu is weak!
Check your rail bolts make sure they are torqued to 15ft pounds. Diamond is superior in every way. They play tougher which is a good thing IMO. People complain about banks I just can't find a problem. I do have a blue label 9ft. I have played on some red's and still find them to play fine on banks. I make more banks then long thin cuts. The pockets is the most frustrating part, but they play true if you miss its valid. Sure it may go in on a valley but their pockets are janky buckets from the ones I have played on. Just my .02 its your $$$ your choice either way. Your diamond will sell quick if its been remotely cared for if you so choose to sale.
I’ve noticed you make as many banks on a 9’ Diamond until you get it in your head it’s a Diamond. Then it’s easy to throw yourself off by overcompensating the rails. Unless you’re a world beater those rails are pretty close to a 9’ GC’s. That’s what my issue has been with them. I think it was me, not the table. Might be the same on the 7 footers. Don’t overthink it
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I am in a situation where where we alternate each week between a bar with valleys and a bar with diamonds. The valleys have the tight penguin rails. The diamonds feel like the ball is shot out of a cannon when they come off a rail.

Folks in my league HATE playing on the valleys with the tight pockets. They play much harder than the super fast diamonds. More pockets rejecting the balls, more rattling the pockets, etc.
I feel like the valleys might help you become a straighter shooter, but you can not cheat the pockets at all...
My buddy has a valley with penguin pro rails. When we go to play on diamonds in a tournament, it's much easier. The penguinized valley plays great, a miss is on you, not the equipment. It really gets you tuned in to how pool is supposed to be played. Going from the 4 1/4" openings (with smaller shelves) to the 4 1/2" with deeper shelves is basically shooting fish in a barrel.

Once you're onto the table, you can cheat the pockets, but your aim better be true.
 
Top