Uptable balls

Samiel

Samiel

Sea Player
Silver Member
My greatest weakness (except for being able to run balls) are One Pocket games that involve multiple balls uptable. Can anyone give me a general strategy on how to deal with situations where there are no bankable balls uptable?

Do you try to leave your opponent uptable?
Do you try to leave your opponent downtable with no bankable balls?

I find myself trying to break up clusters in the attempt to leave myself bankable balls. Most times my opponent will just tie up those balls again or leave me nothing to bank.

How do pros deal with this type of game?

(I'll admit to posting this on OnePocket.org as well...)
 
I am a 1-p novice as well, but I would submit that the answer to your question is going to depend heavily upon the score. I'm sure one of the local 1-p experts will do a much better job of filling in the details than I could.

Good luck,

Aaron
 
I'm no expert or great player either, but here's my take on uptable balls. When you are significantly ahead, try to leave the balls uptable out of play, and don't worry about breaking up the clusters. If you only need one or two, and your opponent needs several, there's no need to put more than one ball into play at a time.

If you are behind however, try to get some balls back downtable if it can be done safely. Try to get as many balls in play as possible, so that if your opponent makes a mistake, you may have several balls to run. Making balls in the top corner pocket on your opponents side and spotting it up is a common way to do this.

In general you should only be looking to break out balls from clusters if you can be sure that it won't sell out any free shots. I love to make clusters against aggressive players, because they so often give me a free 2 or 3 rail bank trying to break up the cluster. Just be patient, and wait for good opportunities.

Hope that helps some. If you have any specific questions, I would happy to give my opinion as well, although it may not be worth more than what you paid for it.
 
Samiel said:
My greatest weakness (except for being able to run balls) are One Pocket games that involve multiple balls uptable. Can anyone give me a general strategy on how to deal with situations where there are no bankable balls uptable?

Do you try to leave your opponent uptable?
Do you try to leave your opponent downtable with no bankable balls?

I find myself trying to break up clusters in the attempt to leave myself bankable balls. Most times my opponent will just tie up those balls again or leave me nothing to bank.

How do pros deal with this type of game?

(I'll admit to posting this on OnePocket.org as well...)
Click to expand...

send me a pm & let me know if you've seen Grady's one pocket tapes. i've got two that might give you some help. (since you beat me most times we play one hole, i probably need to re-watch them myself):D

Let me know...i'll bring them to clicks on saturday.
 
Know your 3 rail and 2 rail banks with speed control, but when they do not apply, leave the balls up table (as mentioned, assuming you're leading) and stick the cue down table. This often results in you being left up table from a slow-roll type safety, and you can usually just carom off of a ball and get them down there again easily. Continue until THEY mess up or YOU come up with a plan. Those slow rolled balls sometimes fade a bit...

Also, practice the spot shot from the opposite side. Don't be affraid; take advantage of it if they try to bring a ball down into play.
 
Samiel said:
My greatest weakness (except for being able to run balls) are One Pocket games that involve multiple balls uptable. Can anyone give me a general strategy on how to deal with situations where there are no bankable balls uptable?

Do you try to leave your opponent uptable?
Do you try to leave your opponent downtable with no bankable balls?

I find myself trying to break up clusters in the attempt to leave myself bankable balls. Most times my opponent will just tie up those balls again or leave me nothing to bank.

How do pros deal with this type of game?

(I'll admit to posting this on OnePocket.org as well...)
Click to expand...

Assuming the score is close (2-2, 3-1, 3-3) and all of the remaining balls are past the side pocket, the best safety (if you have no offensive shot) is to put your opponent on the rail you break to. More often than not, there will be too many balls in the way to shoot a bank or to slide off a ball and try to leave you in the same position. This leaves your opponent with the option of rolling up on a ball from several feet away. If he happens to get safe, you will most likely be able to put him in the same spot again, but the situation is definately to your advantage.

BTW & FWIW, the only response that I just really don't agree with is cutting the spot shot backwards. While I agree that you should practice the shot, practicing the shot should bring you to the realization that it is not a very good shot, as far as the rewards outweighing the risks.
 
senor said:
BTW & FWIW, the only response that I just really don't agree with is cutting the spot shot backwards. While I agree that you should practice the shot, practicing the shot should bring you to the realization that it is not a very good shot, as far as the rewards outweighing the risks.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, that shot spells disaster.
 
The score is very important in this situation. If I only need say 2 balls and my opponent needs say 6, then I try and keep all but 2 balls tied up or keep one out in the open on my side to shoot at. The basic logic is to make your opponent only be able to get one ball at a time. If they are behind, this gives you a huge advantage. JMO.

Southpaw
 
senor said:
BTW & FWIW, the only response that I just really don't agree with is cutting the spot shot backwards. While I agree that you should practice the shot, practicing the shot should bring you to the realization that it is not a very good shot, as far as the rewards outweighing the risks.
Click to expand...

I should have been more specific, practice it and take advantage of it when you feel confident with it. It is not uncommon for them to leave you out from the long-rail far enough for it to be plausable. The game is about assessing risks, that should be a given.
 
BTW, I'm very confortable with the backwards-cut spot shot, so that's not a huge deal for me. Making balls in the top pockets sounds like a reasonable way to get some balls back in play.

asn130 - Feel free to bring the tapes if you like. Grady always has something worth learning. :p

Also, I'm talking mainly about situations where each player only has a few balls and the rest are uptable and both people just bunt balls uptable to play safe. These usually end up being long, patience-testing (for me) games. I can hardly stand to play these types of One Pocket games and usually make poor decisions.

Thanks for all the tips!
 
Samiel said:
BTW, I'm very confortable with the backwards-cut spot shot, so that's not a huge deal for me. Making balls in the top pockets sounds like a reasonable way to get some balls back in play.

asn130 - Feel free to bring the tapes if you like. Grady always has something worth learning. :p

Also, I'm talking mainly about situations where each player only has a few balls and the rest are uptable and both people just bunt balls uptable to play safe. These usually end up being long, patience-testing (for me) games. I can hardly stand to play these types of One Pocket games and usually make poor decisions.

Thanks for all the tips!
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you already know what you need to do...... be more patient! Just wait for good opportunities rather than trying to force them, and don't get too lazy either. One way to combat boredom and lazy mistakes in those types of games is to try to be as precise as possible in every shot, even the little bunt shots. This will also help to keep you focused and in stroke for when a good shot finally comes up.
 
desert1pocket said:
...be more patient!
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That seems to be the biggest factor in a lot of these close games with everything uptable; it becomes a battle of wills as much as anything. If the score is close, and you're able to give your opp. the impression that you're perfectly willing to bunt balls around until the next ice age, then he might get a bit too aggressive and sell out something. On the other hand, if you let on that you're getting impatient, then that will probably only encourage him to play tighter and continue to wait for you to do something stupid.

Good luck,
Aaron
 
I recall (back quite a few yrs.) one of my favorite books on pool was George Fels book Mastering Pool.

I still recall a sentence he used that said "One pocket is a game that is lost far more often than it is won." Ain't that the truth ... :)
 
3andstop said:
I recall (back quite a few yrs.) one of my favorite books on pool was George Fels book Mastering Pool.

I still recall a sentence he used that said "One pocket is a game that is lost far more often than it is won." Ain't that the truth ... :)
Click to expand...

That quote is awesome. Nice post.
 
Samiel said:
... Also, I'm talking mainly about situations where each player only has a few balls and the rest are uptable and both people just bunt balls uptable to play safe. These usually end up being long, patience-testing (for me) games. I can hardly stand to play these types of One Pocket games and usually make poor decisions. ...
Click to expand...
Sounds like me.:D

Learn the offensive moves. On long bank shots can you stun the cue ball and stick it behind another ball in the kitchen? If there is no bank shot, can you kick at a ball well enough to leave it within a diamond of your pocket? (And maybe also stick the cue ball somewhere unpleasant.) Skill at these shots takes either experience or practice. I think practice is cheaper.

If there is no offensive move, play the best defensive move you can, working to block your opponent's banking lanes, removing his possible shots with ball in hand (in case you scratch later), and developing your own possible banking lanes. Work on freezing the cue ball either to the backs of balls or to the foot cushion. Do not give up the inches! Each one is precious.

I remember one match between Ronnie Allen and Mike Sigel. After a long series of safeties back to the foot rail, Sigel remarked, "Just give me an inch, Ronnie." Ronnie wasn't giving up inches.

Getting back to the above offensive points, how far off the foot rail does the cue ball have to be for you to be able to kill the cue ball when shooting a long bank shot of a ball that's near the head rail? Again, the requirement is that you must leave the object ball within a diamond of your pocket.

There are some bank shots that require you to bring the cue ball to the foot rail for a safety. On those shots, you better play the bank hard enough to return the object ball to the kitchen if you miss. This means that you have to understand banks at a lot of different speeds especially for the up-table game.
 
1P is a pretty situational game, it's hard for anyone to correctly tell you what to do in a situation as vague as "what do I do when there are a bunch of balls up table".

What is the score? how are the balls layed out?

I think you're much better of posting a cue-table rendering of different layouts you come accross and asking what players would do.
 
AZE said:
1P is a pretty situational game, it's hard for anyone to correctly tell you what to do in a situation as vague as "what do I do when there are a bunch of balls up table".

What is the score? how are the balls layed out?

I think you're much better of posting a cue-table rendering of different layouts you come accross and asking what players would do.
Click to expand...
I think he asked an excellent question and got an excellent answer from Bob Jewett. The general tactical principles that apply to each stage of the game are the most helpful things to learn, especially for beginners like me and Samiel. Specific situations are fun, but maybe more helpful to more experienced players.

pj
chgo
 
Thanks for the general tips Bob! BTW, I just caught you, Ivan and Jeanette judging the 3C "Artistic" competition on ESPN. Great shots all around!
 
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