US Bans sale of all ivory across state lines

After reading this some may have a different perspective.....
http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/the-ivory-highway-20140213


The demand in China has ramped up elephant poaching to an incredible level.
After reading that article I doubt the interstate ban will have much of an impact on poaching elephants.
It's a shame, and it is obviously big business in some of those poor African countries.
The ivory problem is in China, we're the good guys.
 
The Chinese have a fairly warped sense of status symbols, but money is the ultimate, and the things that it can buy.

I wonder how many bears have been slaughtered world wide to supply them with just a small bear gall so the men can get big boners.

I suppose when the average Chinese Peener is 3 1/2", who can blame them, right.
 
The demand in China has ramped up elephant poaching to an incredible level.
After reading that article I doubt the interstate ban will have much of an impact on poaching elephants.
It's a shame, and it is obviously big business in some of those poor African countries.
The ivory problem is in China, we're the good guys.

This is true. China has something on the order of millions of millionaires, I forget how many. Wealthy Chinese are gobbling up stuff like ivory because it's a status symbol. They have a tradition of carving ivory and the rarer something is the more desirable it is.

The Chinese middle class numbers about 300 million or roughly the same as the entire population of the United States. That's a LOT of purchasing power.

And the enforcement over ivory ownership and provenance is likely to be very lax in China as those who own it tend to be powerful and connected. You can see carved ivory tusks on display in stores over there.

Of course now and then there will be an arrest over ivory smuggling but it's surely just a tiny fraction of what's coming in.

That's my opinion - I have no actual facts to back this up - just my feeling on the matter after living there for seven years and seeing what's on the official market.

Maybe our Chinese members can elaborate on it with something more factual.
 
All Ivory has a code # (stamped on the ivory) on it,,so you will have to get a letter from the cue maker with the Code # ,,so there will be many letters written now

Kenny

Surely you're being facetious and don't actually believe this?
 
Ivory will go up in price. People will want it just because they are not supposed to have it. Cue makers will continue to make Ivory cues as long as they can sell them. It will become a black market and we all know what happens to the price of things on a black market. It could even increase the amount of cues made with Ivory in them. Right now nothing has changed. The law is not in effect right now. Until the law comes in effect don't worry about it. I have a cue with a lot of Ivory and I plan on keeping it. I don't want to sell it because I want a cue with Ivory in it. Even if the law comes in effect, cue makers can still build cues with Ivory and can legally sell them within their own state. It will probably become cash deals with no receipts. Let the Feds bite on that for awhile, it will drive them nuts. Cue makers will prevail, nothing will stop them. It is time to fight back guy's.
 
Its time to fight back?

There are so many things in the USA that people should and could fight back about as a collective whole.

Do they tho. Nah. Too busy with their own little lives and as long as it doesn't affect them directly, they are content to sit in front of their flat screen TVS and watch movies.

So you're saying that a handful of peoples opinions re the use of Ivory in pool cues is going to arouse anyones interest enuff for the average citizen to get off their butts and complain about it.

I highly doubt it. Yer on your own on this one.

Gun Laws have everyone fighting back to a certain extent these days and that is something that people of the USA take very serious.
As to whether they will get anywhere with it is another story.

A couple of pieces of Ivory in a pool cue. Trust me, no one else on the entire planet cares about your pool cue more than you do.

I live in Canada and I don't give a crap about your pool cue. Do you think Sheik Oomfoofoo in the United Emirates cares about your cue.
Nah, he will just buy an elephant, cut its tusks off and have a bar b que.

I'm sitting on an antique set of Ivory Dominoes at the moment. I guess that I will have to buy a Hightower inlay machine or learn to play Dominoes.
 
Last edited:
Ivory will go up in price. People will want it just because they are not supposed to have it. Cue makers will continue to make Ivory cues as long as they can sell them. It will become a black market and we all know what happens to the price of things on a black market. It could even increase the amount of cues made with Ivory in them. Right now nothing has changed. The law is not in effect right now. Until the law comes in effect don't worry about it. I have a cue with a lot of Ivory and I plan on keeping it. I don't want to sell it because I want a cue with Ivory in it. Even if the law comes in effect, cue makers can still build cues with Ivory and can legally sell them within their own state. It will probably become cash deals with no receipts. Let the Feds bite on that for awhile, it will drive them nuts. Cue makers will prevail, nothing will stop them. It is time to fight back guy's.

It is not just cue makers or cue owners, there are thousands of antique stores with small items made of ivory and millions of people nation wide with something made from ivory in their homes.
As for cue makers flouting the law should it go into effect... I doubt many would risk the fines and forfeitures although as in anything there are those that will keep doing what they are doing. Get caught and you will probably wish you had gone golfing instead.
 
It seems like if you have a cue with ivory you will only be able to sell within your own state. http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/africa/198116-us-bans-commercial-sale-of-ivory

It does say bans "commercial" sale of ivory. To me it sounds like you can't buy a 10 lb block of ivory from another state but a cue made with ivory you want to buy is OK. Bulk purchase vs a single crafted item purchase. I'd think a person to person sale would be doubly OK much less a cue maker to buyer.
 
Ivory will go up in price. People will want it just because they are not supposed to have it. Cue makers will continue to make Ivory cues as long as they can sell them. It will become a black market and we all know what happens to the price of things on a black market. It could even increase the amount of cues made with Ivory in them. Right now nothing has changed. The law is not in effect right now. Until the law comes in effect don't worry about it. I have a cue with a lot of Ivory and I plan on keeping it. I don't want to sell it because I want a cue with Ivory in it. Even if the law comes in effect, cue makers can still build cues with Ivory and can legally sell them within their own state. It will probably become cash deals with no receipts. Let the Feds bite on that for awhile, it will drive them nuts. Cue makers will prevail, nothing will stop them. It is time to fight back guy's.
" Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no..." Bluto
 
New information posted to the FWS website: 2/26/14

http://www.fws.gov/international/wildlife-trafficking/index.html

February 26, 2014
Subject: Controls on Import, Export and Interstate Sale of Elephant Ivory and Other Products Made from ESA-listed Species
Background: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe has signed a Director’s Order instructing agency staff to more strictly enforce existing restrictions on the commercial trade in elephant ivory. The order is the first in a series of administrative actions that the Service will take to stop the prolific illegal trade in ivory, rhino horn and other animal parts that is placing many of the world’s most revered animals in crisis. These measures are called for in the National Strategy on Combating Wildlife Trafficking, which was signed by the President on February 11, 2014.
Effective immediately, the Order instructs Service employees to strictly implement and enforce two legal restrictions. The first is the African Elephant Conservation Act moratorium on the importation of raw and worked African elephant ivory. The second issue addressed in the Director’s Order is the statutory requirements an item must meet to qualify as an “antique” under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) and thus be exempt from the law’s prohibitions.
Action: Effective immediately:
(1) African elephant ivory, including antiques, may no longer be imported into the United States for any commercial purpose. The only African elephant ivory that may now be brought into the country with proper documentation is ivory that is:
• part of a lawfully taken sport hunted trophy
• imported by a federal, state or tribal government agency for law enforcement purposes
• imported for scientific purposes that contribute to elephant conservation
• worked ivory contained in personal items as part of a household move or inheritance that meets specific criteria
• worked ivory that is part of a musical instrument that meets specific criteria
• worked ivory imported as part of a traveling exhibition that meets specific criteria
(2) Anyone using the antique exception under the ESA to import, export or sell across state boundaries (interstate sale) any item made from or containing part of an endangered or threatened species will need to show documentation that:
• the item is at least 100 years old;
• was legally imported at a designated Customs “antique port”; and
• has not been subject to certain types of repairs or modifications.
• Additionally, the particular species has to be identified on the documentation.

Rigorous Service enforcement of these “antique” criteria will affect the importation and interstate sale of Asian elephant ivory as antiques, the export of both African and Asian elephant ivory under the ESA’s antiques exemption, as well as the international trade and interstate sale of items made from any foreign species listed as endangered or threatened. Interstate sale of African elephant ivory will remain legal at this time, but the Service is pursuing the regulatory changes needed to address such commerce.
Contact:
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Office of Law Enforcement
703-358-1949; 703-358-2271 (fax)
lawenforcement@fws.gov (e-mail)
NOTICE TO THE WILDLIFE
IMPORT/EXPORT COMMUNITY
 
It's not surprising to see that musical instruments got an exception. Your ivory is bad, but mine is good. Way to go Bono!

The rest of the details continue the crapshoot of government law enforcement: if we want to get you, we can. We'll find some piece of paperwork that you didn't fill out properly...and you're toast. We don't have to convict you; when you're done complying with all our legal discovery requests you'll wish you'd never been born.
 
Very few cues are 100 years old. That requirement alone crushed selling cues across state lines. And even if your cue is 100 years old, if you ever had the tip replaced your out of compliance. It just seems like this is aimed directly at cues.
 
I have cues with ivory and cues without. I love them all, but probably won't order any more with ivory. Mainly as a personal conviction, if nothing more.

That being said, the U.S. banning the sale of ivory across state lines is reminiscent of the "War on Drugs". It's a giant waste of money that won't change anything until the international community takes a stand as well. Especially the countries where the contraband is created whether it's cocaine or ivory......

We have homeless in the streets, the economy sucks, we face a potential war at every turn, our deficit climbs everyday and we are focusing efforts on something we will never be able to control by throwing money and resources at it that we don't have. Your tax dollars at work.

Just my two cents worth....

-J

GREAT post. I don't see how anyone(mentally stable) could argue with that. Last time i checked, I've never seen anyone trying to show off ivory on tv or billboards. I would also bet that if you had to deal with dodging elephants on your way to work as opposed to deer and dogs, there wouldn't be any ban in place.
 
I just wanted to raise a few statistics...

After searching the internet this is what I have found.. Since 1992 375,000 # of ivory has been destroyed. 170 tons.

Fact 1: In 1992 or so, ivory was under 100 a lb, now it can sell for over 200 a lb. So keep this in mind, the tighter the laws, the more it has gone up. The less the supply, the higher the price.

Fact 2: On average, at $ 150.00 a lb, this would have raised 56, million dollars. One website reported Kenya destroyed 16 million of ivory which I did not count.. that is over $ 70 million dollars that COULD have been applied to fight ILLEGAL poaching.

I know people cannot grasp this concept and liberals really for some reason cannot get it through their thick heads that in their society the only people who end up with guns are the bad guys, and in a liberal society they always out gun the good guys. Here is the simple math, the governments do not apply funds for anti-poaching, the poachers are taking their money and BUYING newer equipment. So WHO is getting stronger?

$ 70 million dollars.. and I am sure I missed a few articles or instances where ivory was destroyed.

Remember in 50-60 years IF all the elephants are gone, liberals better look in the mirror because they have single handily signed the elephants death warrants.

Before you bleeding hearts jump in.. reason with this.. China is the fastest growing economy, they are rich and getting richer, and they DO NOT CARE, if ivory hits $ 3000 a lb, they will want it, and they will obtain it. They use more ivory than any country. They pay 3 million dollars for a dog just because its a status symbol. What they will do for ivory, will not matter.

JV
 
I just wanted to raise a few statistics...

After searching the internet this is what I have found.. Since 1992 375,000 # of ivory has been destroyed. 170 tons.

Fact 1: In 1992 or so, ivory was under 100 a lb, now it can sell for over 200 a lb. So keep this in mind, the tighter the laws, the more it has gone up. The less the supply, the higher the price.

Fact 2: On average, at $ 150.00 a lb, this would have raised 56, million dollars. One website reported Kenya destroyed 16 million of ivory which I did not count.. that is over $ 70 million dollars that COULD have been applied to fight ILLEGAL poaching.

I know people cannot grasp this concept and liberals really for some reason cannot get it through their thick heads that in their society the only people who end up with guns are the bad guys, and in a liberal society they always out gun the good guys. Here is the simple math, the governments do not apply funds for anti-poaching, the poachers are taking their money and BUYING newer equipment. So WHO is getting stronger?

$ 70 million dollars.. and I am sure I missed a few articles or instances where ivory was destroyed.

Remember in 50-60 years IF all the elephants are gone, liberals better look in the mirror because they have single handily signed the elephants death warrants.

Before you bleeding hearts jump in.. reason with this.. China is the fastest growing economy, they are rich and getting richer, and they DO NOT CARE, if ivory hits $ 3000 a lb, they will want it, and they will obtain it. They use more ivory than any country. They pay 3 million dollars for a dog just because its a status symbol. What they will do for ivory, will not matter.

JV

Excellent post. Instead of destroying it sell it and flood the market. Same thing is happening with weed. Illegal dealers are getting out because the profits are too low for the risk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 
Hopefully this is not too little, too late. http://www.elephantprotection.org/

Incidentally, I posted this in a few places on facebook. Feel free to re-share this with everyone you know.

If you are inclined to like legal ivory in your cues and understand that compassion and management of this issue is the answer, not posturing for the cameras and trying to enact some draconian edict, then burying your head in the sand to hope for the best.....feel free to put your money where your mouth (or passion) is. I did. Call your senators and congressmen. I did.

All the proposed ban does is ensure the elephants' demise. But that's what happens when idiots are in charge of making policy. :(
 
lol, I doubt that will ever stop. what big brother don;t know won't hurt him :D
edit, I meant cues already made that will be sold.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top