US Open 9-ball updates thread..

[realkingcobra]

I think you are creating a higher barrier to enter an already decreasing market of professionals. Creating a higher cost (time in local tournaments) does nothing to increase demand. This can be modeled in mathematical terms but it is easy to see with just thinking about it.

The fully open satellite model (at least for the US Open) would generate much more local interest and much more paid into the prize pool. Look at the World Series of Poker, they have 8,000 plus people paying $10,000 a piece to get to play for millions. What is more inspiring, a Chris Moneymaker or Carlos Biado? Moneymaker went from an amateur playing with friends to a millionaire and somewhat a pro overnight.

Poker achieves this high number of players because many of them can play local satellite tourneys and win their way into the big show or they can just pay their way in. Imagine the impact on the World Series of Poker if you were prohibited from just signing up?

I would set up a US Open Model that tied into state and local tourneys. (I'm making numbers up after this, they can be adjusted...) Make the US Open a $5,000 entry fee. The pros and the sponsors and the rich wannabees can pay this amount. Feed players into the tourney from wins in state opens. Each state has a "US Open-State" tourney. This can be $1,000 entry. The top 10 from each state get paid some money and an entry into the US Open with travel and expenses. Each city or district in the state will have a smaller tournament that feeds the state tourney. You buy into the district tourney for say $250. Your playing for some cash and an entry into the state tourney. Local pool halls can license a US Open-Local tourney to win your way into the district tourney. These can happen throughout the year. Local buy in could be as little as $25 a person with a minimum number of participants required or the pool hall can kick in an automatic district buy in (Win the local cash and $250 district buy in paid for by owner added funds). Heck, at $25 if you had 20 entrants, you could have a $250 payout AND a district buy-in.

The US Open licensing would generate name brand recognition to these events. Any pool hall that wants to host small, local satellites, would have to register with the US Open group. They could have a website that shows if a tourney is sponsored or not. Players would be encouraged to ONLY enter US Open licensed tourneys.

Adjust the dollar figures above for what the market will actually accept. You could have a US Open tourney with the absolute best players in the country. Some could buy in for as little as a $25 satellite. The payouts could start to look like life changing money to the players rather than the barely break even amounts after expenses and taxes we have now.

Let me ask you something, how many years does it take to become a professional poker player vs a Professional pool player? Do you honestly think the two requirements take the same amount of years of practice, dedication, and sacrifice?

 

[buckshotshoey]

And there is where the decent living needs that line drawn, between the upper level amateurs and the Pros. If a player wants to make a living playing pool, then cross that line into the Pros first, I have no interest in supporting a living playing pool for the amateurs! There's a huge difference between supporting Pro events with advertising dollars, vs adding sponsorship money to lower level amateur included events, based on the requests of the event hosts submitting a request for sponsorship dollars to help increase the payouts in lower level events, in which the Pro's may, or may not be able to compete in, depending on the Fargo rate restrictions!!

Not sure if I understand you completely. I didnt say anything about amateurs making a living in pool. It would be more of an exhibition type of thing. A public relations program so to speak. How to you figure to inspire mid to upper level players to reach higher?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Let me ask you something, how many years does it take to become a professional poker player vs a Professional pool player? Do you honestly think the two requirements take the same amount of years of practice, dedication, and sacrifice?

I agree. Playing poker is 100% mental. Pool also has a physical element to it.

 

[realkingcobra]

I think you are creating a higher barrier to enter an already decreasing market of professionals. Creating a higher cost (time in local tournaments) does nothing to increase demand. This can be modeled in mathematical terms but it is easy to see with just thinking about it.

The fully open satellite model (at least for the US Open) would generate much more local interest and much more paid into the prize pool. Look at the World Series of Poker, they have 8,000 plus people paying $10,000 a piece to get to play for millions. What is more inspiring, a Chris Moneymaker or Carlos Biado? Moneymaker went from an amateur playing with friends to a millionaire and somewhat a pro overnight.

Poker achieves this high number of players because many of them can play local satellite tourneys and win their way into the big show or they can just pay their way in. Imagine the impact on the World Series of Poker if you were prohibited from just signing up?

I would set up a US Open Model that tied into state and local tourneys. (I'm making numbers up after this, they can be adjusted...) Make the US Open a $5,000 entry fee. The pros and the sponsors and the rich wannabees can pay this amount. Feed players into the tourney from wins in state opens. Each state has a "US Open-State" tourney. This can be $1,000 entry. The top 10 from each state get paid some money and an entry into the US Open with travel and expenses. Each city or district in the state will have a smaller tournament that feeds the state tourney. You buy into the district tourney for say $250. Your playing for some cash and an entry into the state tourney. Local pool halls can license a US Open-Local tourney to win your way into the district tourney. These can happen throughout the year. Local buy in could be as little as $25 a person with a minimum number of participants required or the pool hall can kick in an automatic district buy in (Win the local cash and $250 district buy in paid for by owner added funds). Heck, at $25 if you had 20 entrants, you could have a $250 payout AND a district buy-in.

The US Open licensing would generate name brand recognition to these events. Any pool hall that wants to host small, local satellites, would have to register with the US Open group. They could have a website that shows if a tourney is sponsored or not. Players would be encouraged to ONLY enter US Open licensed tourneys.

Adjust the dollar figures above for what the market will actually accept. You could have a US Open tourney with the absolute best players in the country. Some could buy in for as little as a $25 satellite. The payouts could start to look like life changing money to the players rather than the barely break even amounts after expenses and taxes we have now.

The "decreasing market of Professionals" only exists because less than a hand full of players actually make a living from their cue stick, and turn to sponsor hookers, selling products for this industry in order to make up for the lack of tournament earnings!!! And those very sponsors take from this industry and don't give back as far as I'm concerned!!

Advertisers spend billions on viewers to sell their products, with no guarantee of a return, how much does this billiards industry as a whole spend in advertising dollars on supporting its OWN sport???

 

[realkingcobra]

Not sure if I understand you completely. I didnt say anything about amateurs making a living in pool. It would be more of an exhibition type of thing. A public relations program so to speak. How to you figure to inspire mid to upper level players to reach higher?

You inspire upper level Professional pool players by giving them a fair chance to earn a living with their cue sticks, not by turning them into product sponsor whores in order to support their desires to make a living as Professional pool players!

And you do that by creating a separation between those who have what it takes to be called a Professional Pool Player, and those who expect a chance to make some extra weekend money playing pool, because they feel entitled, because they play pool too!!

 

[realkingcobra]

I think you are creating a higher barrier to enter an already decreasing market of professionals. Creating a higher cost (time in local tournaments) does nothing to increase demand. This can be modeled in mathematical terms but it is easy to see with just thinking about it.

The fully open satellite model (at least for the US Open) would generate much more local interest and much more paid into the prize pool. Look at the World Series of Poker, they have 8,000 plus people paying $10,000 a piece to get to play for millions. What is more inspiring, a Chris Moneymaker or Carlos Biado? Moneymaker went from an amateur playing with friends to a millionaire and somewhat a pro overnight.

Poker achieves this high number of players because many of them can play local satellite tourneys and win their way into the big show or they can just pay their way in. Imagine the impact on the World Series of Poker if you were prohibited from just signing up?

I would set up a US Open Model that tied into state and local tourneys. (I'm making numbers up after this, they can be adjusted...) Make the US Open a $5,000 entry fee. The pros and the sponsors and the rich wannabees can pay this amount. Feed players into the tourney from wins in state opens. Each state has a "US Open-State" tourney. This can be $1,000 entry. The top 10 from each state get paid some money and an entry into the US Open with travel and expenses. Each city or district in the state will have a smaller tournament that feeds the state tourney. You buy into the district tourney for say $250. Your playing for some cash and an entry into the state tourney. Local pool halls can license a US Open-Local tourney to win your way into the district tourney. These can happen throughout the year. Local buy in could be as little as $25 a person with a minimum number of participants required or the pool hall can kick in an automatic district buy in (Win the local cash and $250 district buy in paid for by owner added funds). Heck, at $25 if you had 20 entrants, you could have a $250 payout AND a district buy-in.

The US Open licensing would generate name brand recognition to these events. Any pool hall that wants to host small, local satellites, would have to register with the US Open group. They could have a website that shows if a tourney is sponsored or not. Players would be encouraged to ONLY enter US Open licensed tourneys.

Adjust the dollar figures above for what the market will actually accept. You could have a US Open tourney with the absolute best players in the country. Some could buy in for as little as a $25 satellite. The payouts could start to look like life changing money to the players rather than the barely break even amounts after expenses and taxes we have now.

What you fail to realize, as MANY people fail to realize as well, is that POOL is NOT an AMERICAN only watched sport! It HAS a world viewing audience, and the WORLD viewing audience would love to see, and would WILLINGLY support the viewership of a truly organized live streaming platform streaming the Professional Pool Players Association best representives competing at the highest level possible for their entertainment, and that's the basic job of ANY sport, to provide ENTERTAINMENT to the masses! No where in that does in include the amateurs, no body cares about watching them!! And NO ONE is going to pay to watch them either!

Here's another problem NO ONE has addressed, the fact that no one has the time to sit down and watch the entire pool event, US Open 9B, Turning Stone, DCC, International 9B Open, or ANY other pool event! Which if you think about it, contributes to the low viewership of all those events. People work, have schedules to keep, have a million other things to do rather than spending all their time sitting around watching a pool tournament taking place.

I have addressed that issue as well, and no one will miss out on ANY of the events we'll be bringing to the viewers!!!

 

[realkingcobra]

Not sure if I understand you completely. I didnt say anything about amateurs making a living in pool. It would be more of an exhibition type of thing. A public relations program so to speak. How to you figure to inspire mid to upper level players to reach higher?

Simple answer, what inspires Snooker players to reach higher?

 

[buckshotshoey]

Simple answer, what inspires Snooker players to reach higher?

I admire your aspirations, but you can't build a house without a solid foundation. The key is getting more people involved in the game. And that has to start with our young people. I think you need to find room in your plan the grow the sport from the bottom up, as well as the top down. Just creating better paid Pros is not going to bring young people into the game.

If I had money, I would attempt to start recruiting at the high school level... Freshman to senior. That is the one thing that high school kids can do where it doesn't matter if you're tall or short, thin or fat, male or female. It's a game that can be played all year around. It very easily could be an extracurricular activity not unlike football, basketball, or baseball.

I truly believe a firm base will be a savior to the game of pool, not just high paid professionals.

 

[realkingcobra]

I admire your aspirations, but you can't build a house without a solid foundation. The key is getting more people involved in the game. And that has to start with our young people. I think you need to find room in your plan the grow the sport from the bottom up, as well as the top down. Just creating better paid Pros is not going to bring young people into the game.

If I had money, I would attempt to start recruiting at the high school level... Freshman to senior. That is the one thing that high school kids can do where it doesn't matter if you're tall or short, thin or fat, male or female. It's a game that can be played all year around.

I truly believe a firm base will be a savior to the game of pool, not just high paid professionals.

This sport has already had about 75-100 years to grow from the bottom up, why is it still so screwed up??? I'll tell you why point blank, if there's NO reason to reach the top, because of lack of income, why would ANYONE want to dedicate their time at the lower levels of pool to becoming a professional??? PAY THE TOP PLAYERS TODAY, and prove to the upcoming players they're NOT wasting their time or dreams of becoming a TOP PLAYER someday!!! The higher the top players get paid, the more it'll inspire players to want to become Professional players, it's pretty simple math!!

Your idea basically throws out all the Professional players today with their someday replacement players, that may or may NOT pursue a career as. Professional pool player, only to live a broke life for trophies instead of cash in hand to buy a house and pay their cost of living bills with.

 

[buckshotshoey]

This sport has already had about 75-100 years to grow from the bottom up, why is it still so screwed up??? I'll tell you why point blank, if there's NO reason to reach the top, because of lack of income, why would ANYONE want to dedicate their time at the lower levels of pool to becoming a professional??? PAY THE TOP PLAYERS TODAY, and prove to the upcoming players they're NOT wasting their time or dreams of becoming a TOP PLAYER someday!!! The higher the top players get paid, the more it'll inspire players to want to become Professional players, it's pretty simple math!!

Your idea basically throws out all the Professional players today with their someday replacement players, that may or may NOT pursue a career as. Professional pool player, only to live a broke life for trophies instead of cash in hand to buy a house and pay their cost of living bills with.

I did not say that. I said you got to work from both ends. You know as well as I do younger people have no interest in dedicating themselves to play pool. It's not even on their radar. Say are more interested in their electronic gadgets. You've got to make them want to play pool to begin with. If you do not, any changes you make at the pro level will have a very short shelf life.

I don't know who originally quoted this, but I'll say it anyway..." Pool is an analog game in a digital world".

 

[SlateMan]

What you fail to realize, as MANY people fail to realize as well, is that POOL is NOT an AMERICAN only watched sport! It HAS a world viewing audience, and the WORLD viewing audience would love to see, and would WILLINGLY support the viewership of a truly organized live streaming platform streaming the Professional Pool Players Association best representives competing at the highest level possible for their entertainment, and that's the basic job of ANY sport, to provide ENTERTAINMENT to the masses! No where in that does in include the amateurs, no body cares about watching them!! And NO ONE is going to pay to watch them either!

Here's another problem NO ONE has addressed, the fact that no one has the time to sit down and watch the entire pool event, US Open 9B, Turning Stone, DCC, International 9B Open, or ANY other pool event! Which if you think about it, contributes to the low viewership of all those events. People work, have schedules to keep, have a million other things to do rather than spending all their time sitting around watching a pool tournament taking place.

I have addressed that issue as well, and no one will miss out on ANY of the events we'll be bringing to the viewers!!!

The barrier to entry for players means less pro players. Without pro players, you do not have a product to bring to market. You are suggesting a baseball like model to the sport. That could work, but only with the support of high school, college, semi-pro (A, AA, AAA) leagues and finally the major leagues. Those minor leagues exist to fee the pro market for talent. There is demand because little kids have access to the support from t-ball & up. Pool does not have that base. Your intent is good, but you are focused at the top of the pyramid without having any supporting base.

 

[realkingcobra]

I did not say that. I said you got to work from both ends. You know as well as I do younger people have no interest in dedicating themselves to play pool. It's not even on their radar. Say are more interested in their electronic gadgets. You've got to make them want to play pool to begin with. If you do not, any changes you make at the pro level will have a very short shelf life.

I don't know who originally quoted this, but I'll say it anyway..." Pool is an analog game in a digital world".

Here's an analog to consider for the youth. What graduating HS students sets their sights on a minimum wage paying job when looking to the future of building a career? When working at McDonald's pays more in wages than most professional pool players earn in their profession, why would they turn away from playing video games that can pay millions!!

 

[realkingcobra]

The barrier to entry for players means less pro players. Without pro players, you do not have a product to bring to market. You are suggesting a baseball like model to the sport. That could work, but only with the support of high school, college, semi-pro (A, AA, AAA) leagues and finally the major leagues. Those minor leagues exist to fee the pro market for talent. There is demand because little kids have access to the support from t-ball & up. Pool does not have that base. Your intent is good, but you are focused at the top of the pyramid without having any supporting base.

Without Professional baseball, and players earning millions, how far do you think little league players would go to continue playing baseball as a career????

 

[SlateMan]

Let me ask you something, how many years does it take to become a professional poker player vs a Professional pool player? Do you honestly think the two requirements take the same amount of years of practice, dedication, and sacrifice?

Ah! You do get it! See, poker has a lower barrier to enter the market. Therefore, more people WANT to be poker players. The low barrier is less time and practice. Pool has a higher barrier already in the skill and hours spent practicing. Add in a longer harder path to get to the professional level and you will dry the market of people wanting to be pool players.

 

[realkingcobra]

Ah! You do get it! See, poker has a lower barrier to enter the market. Therefore, more people WANT to be poker players. The low barrier is less time and practice. Pool has a higher barrier already in the skill and hours spent practicing. Add in a longer harder path to get to the professional level and you will dry the market of people wanting to be pool players.

Here, since you want to use Poker as an example;

Salary Ranges for Professional Poker Players

The salaries of Professional Poker Players in the US range from $19,910 to $187,200 , with a median salary of $44,680 . The middle 50% of Professional Poker Players makes $28,400, with the top 75% making $187,200.

https://www.comparably.com › ...

Professional Poker Player Salary | Comparably

 

[SlateMan]

Without Professional baseball, and players earning millions, how far do you think little league players would go to continue playing baseball as a career????

Best of luck with your idea. I'd be interested to know what the ROI would be. If we pay the synchronized swimming champs millions of dollars, will more people watch?

 

[realkingcobra]

50% of the middle range poker players earn an average of $28,400 a year, while a full time McDonald's employee today earns $31,200 annually! Really think poker players earn so much money that every kid today wants to grow up to be a Professional poker player, or play videos games?

 

[SlateMan]

Here, since you want to use Poker as an example;

Salary Ranges for Professional Poker Players

The salaries of Professional Poker Players in the US range from $19,910 to $187,200 , with a median salary of $44,680 . The middle 50% of Professional Poker Players makes $28,400, with the top 75% making $187,200.

https://www.comparably.com › ...

Professional Poker Player Salary | Comparably

Great, which business has more people in it at any one time? Poker room or pool hall? Which is more profitable? Which has more exposure at the top?

 

[realkingcobra]

Great, which business has more people in it at any one time? Poker room or pool hall? Which is more profitable? Which has more exposure at the top?

I can tell you this for sure, Poker really started to grow with live streaming! How many people watch on live streams is more important than how many people you can fit in a poolroom or card room, thats a fact!

Screw trying to count the numbers of people trying to watch in person, anyone counting on them is a fool!!

 

[realkingcobra]

Great, which business has more people in it at any one time? Poker room or pool hall? Which is more profitable? Which has more exposure at the top?

Here's another thing to consider, with the concerns of covid19 today, just how many fans do you have to let in so the event can be in your words, profitable?

Personally, I'm not planning on letting very many in to watch the events live that we host, nothing I'm planning is based on attendance profitably!