US Snooker Rules

pdcue said:
I beg to differ. Saying American Snooker is not Snooker makes no more
sense than saying Balkline isn't Billiards because you don't have to hit
3 cushions. At the end of the day, there is very little difference in the
play of one version vs the other.

They say the same thing about the decline of Straight Pool - too difficult
for bangers. IMNSHO it is much more to do with the decline
of the 'Poolroom' culture that is the true cause.
One Pocket, which is by far the most complex game of all, and is the most
demanding to acheive an accomplished level of play, is much more popular
than ever.

Dale
Click to expand...

1-pocket is more popular than ever? With whom? In the 90's I saw with my own eyes as pool table after pool table replaced snooker tables throughout Canada. I realize snooker was never as big in the States as it is here, but it follows. The appeal was the ease with which young people could play since the focus is on the thrill of potting balls rather than the precision cue ball control that is the hallmark of snooker. I'll admit there's also a financial incentive for pool room operators. You can fit 3 pool tables in the same space as 2 snooker tables. In any case, snooker tables are still disappearing at an alarming rate and I have a hard time believing it's due to anything other than pool being a faster and easier game.

As far as rules go, I guess I'm just a traditionalist and a stickler and as far as I am concerned, there's only one set of rules for snooker. If you wish to convince me American snooker is a legitimate variant, show me where these rules appear in print.
 
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rebound said:
1-pocket is more popular than ever? With whom? In the 90's I saw with my own eyes as pool table after pool table replaced snooker tables throughout Canada. I realize snooker was never as big in the States as it is here, but it follows. The appeal was the ease with which young people could play since the focus is on the thrill of potting balls rather than the precision cue ball control that is the hallmark of snooker. I'll admit there's also a financial incentive for pool room operators. You can fit 3 pool tables in the same space as 2 snooker tables. In any case, snooker tables are still disappearing at an alarming rate and I have a hard time believing it's due to anything other than pool being a faster and easier game.

As far as rules go, I guess I'm just a traditionalist and a stickler and as far as I am concerned, there's only one set of rules for snooker. If you wish to convince me American snooker is a legitimate variant, show me where these rules appear in print.
Click to expand...

If printed rules is all it will take, all you need do is find a copy of the BCA
rulebook, provided it is old enough.

Newsflash, the conversion to pool in Canada is a generational phenomenon,
sparked in large part by the popularity of "The Color of Money".
There was an eqivalent change in emphasis in the US but it was more
about what game was played on the same table.

If you are from Canada, exactly where do you get off questioning my
perception of the popularity of One Pocket in America?

Here's a hint. The DCC routinely draws 400-ish entries each year in the
One Pocket Division. Would you care to borrow a calculator.

And finally, exactly how hard is it to understand there are two versions of
Snooker. Think of it as two similar but distinct games, cause, golly gee,
that's exactly what it is. I have never felt the British played Snooker
'wrong'. I was able to grasp that their version was a bit different.

To avoid the pain of abstraction, you might try think of two games,
each with its own set of rules. One for tables with triangular cushions,
another for tables with flat shelf cushions.

Dale
 
pdcue said:
Yes, yes, and it's a lot more than 1/16" tighter.

Some clairification(s).

The English/International game is played on a "Billiard" table.
Unless things have changed for the worse, only us colonials use the term
"Snooker table" to describe the table Snooker is played on.

American tables do have smaller pockets, but it is the severe rounding
of the cushions to form the opening that makes all the difference.
As a rule of thumb, with no actual hard data to back it up, consider a typical shot,
shooting the Black<7 ball> off its spot from a comfortable
distance at an angle requiring the infamous half-ball-hit.

Factoring in the effective pocket size, larger ball, and pocket geometry,
That pot on an American 5 x 10 is about twice as difficult as on
an English 6 x 12. Just for fun, think about how hard the game was
when there were many 6 x 12 American style tables in the larger cities
of America. Shooting the Pink<6 ball> off its spot from within the D,
roughly equivalent to a 'spot shot' in pool, was enough to make a strong man weep.

Sadly, the strictly American version of the game has all but disapeared.
A distressingly high percentage of the tables available for public use
have been bastardized to 2 1/4 inch corner pockets to play
the vile "golf" and/or "indemnity/insurance". An act that IMHO should
be a felony.

Dale
Click to expand...

Great info here Dale, thanks alot!
 
I don't think of "American Snooker" as snooker. But then I don't think of "English Eight Ball" as 8 ball either.

If anyone in the US gets serious enough about snooker to enter a tournament, they probably will need to know the rules of Snooker. Of course if you're just knocking them around with your buddies, play by the rules your uncle Murrey showed you.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't think of "American Snooker" as snooker. But then I don't think of "English Eight Ball" as 8 ball either.

If anyone in the US gets serious enough about snooker to enter a tournament, they probably will need to know the rules of Snooker. Of course if you're just knocking them around with your buddies, play by the rules your uncle Murrey showed you.
Click to expand...

I find this attitude perplexing to say the least.
What about the good-ol-days when Brunswick suported tournaments
with guys wearing tuxedos just like the 14.1 and Carom championships?

If memory serves Benny Allen, of Kling and Allen fame, won the last of
these tournaments circa 1951-ish

Dale
 
pdcue said:
I find this attitude perplexing to say the least.
What about the good-ol-days when Brunswick supported tournaments
with guys wearing tuxedos just like the 14.1 and Carom championships?

If memory serves Benny Allen, of Kling and Allen fame, won the last of
these tournaments circa 1951-ish

Dale
Click to expand...
So far as I know, Brunswick never ran/supported snooker tournaments.

I believe the pool and carom tournaments prior to 1945 were entirely controlled by Brunswick as a marketing strategy, but I could be mistaken. You could argue that this heritage has left US pool unable to compete with the European model. But this has nothing to do with snooker that I can see.
 
I have never seen anyone play American snooker on anything but a ten footer. Everyone else who played on 12 foot tables played the way they do in the UK. Seems everyone had at least one old tape of Alex Higgins, Jimmy White,etc... and wanted to play like them.

I'm probably wrong, but I thought the whole set of American rules for the game were meant to go with the ten foot table. It seems like every large room in the US used to have a ten foot snooker table.

At this point, the only people I know who play on a snooker table either play golf, or just hit balls on it thinking the tighter pockets will make them shoot straighter on a regular pool table.

Players who used to play variations of payball seem to be the most confused, racking the pink behind a red on the pink spot and other craziness even when attempting to play snooker.
 
pdcue said:
If printed rules is all it will take, all you need do is find a copy of the BCA
rulebook, provided it is old enough.

Newsflash, the conversion to pool in Canada is a generational phenomenon,
sparked in large part by the popularity of "The Color of Money".
There was an eqivalent change in emphasis in the US but it was more
about what game was played on the same table.

If you are from Canada, exactly where do you get off questioning my
perception of the popularity of One Pocket in America?

Here's a hint. The DCC routinely draws 400-ish entries each year in the
One Pocket Division. Would you care to borrow a calculator.

And finally, exactly how hard is it to understand there are two versions of
Snooker. Think of it as two similar but distinct games, cause, golly gee,
that's exactly what it is. I have never felt the British played Snooker
'wrong'. I was able to grasp that their version was a bit different.

To avoid the pain of abstraction, you might try think of two games,
each with its own set of rules. One for tables with triangular cushions,
another for tables with flat shelf cushions.

Dale
Click to expand...

You're right. I regret my close-mindedness. I'm normally not like that but I've been hanging out in a forum with less reasonable people and I was hasty. Bad habit.
 
rebound said:
... I'm normally not like that but I've been hanging out in a forum with less reasonable people and I was hasty. Bad habit.
Click to expand...

Follow my lead mate , occasionally have a looksee at the pics of pretty new cues, read two or three posts and laugh your socks off at the idiots , and just occasionally call a spade a spade which will get you banned by the Weasle. Join again using a proxy and repeat the process.

To date i think i have the highest break....

Wity and about 12 other alias's banned from the TSF. :D
 
pdcue said:
Yes, yes, and it's a lot more than 1/16" tighter.

Some clairification(s).

The English/International game is played on a "Billiard" table.
Unless things have changed for the worse, only us colonials use the term
"Snooker table" to describe the table Snooker is played on.

American tables do have smaller pockets, but it is the severe rounding
of the cushions to form the opening that makes all the difference.
As a rule of thumb, with no actual hard data to back it up, consider a typical shot,
shooting the Black<7 ball> off its spot from a comfortable
distance at an angle requiring the infamous half-ball-hit.

Factoring in the effective pocket size, larger ball, and pocket geometry,
That pot on an American 5 x 10 is about twice as difficult as on
an English 6 x 12. Just for fun, think about how hard the game was
when there were many 6 x 12 American style tables in the larger cities
of America. Shooting the Pink<6 ball> off its spot from within the D,
roughly equivalent to a 'spot shot' in pool, was enough to make a strong man weep.

Sadly, the strictly American version of the game has all but disapeared.
A distressingly high percentage of the tables available for public use
have been bastardized to 2 1/4 inch corner pockets to play
the vile "golf" and/or "indemnity/insurance". An act that IMHO should
be a felony.

Dale
Click to expand...

Dale,
I'm going to need some further clarifications, regarding American snooker. In my experience (Like Rebound, I'm Canadian), a snooker table is a snooker table; a 'billiard table' either has no pockets or is a common misnomer for a 'pool table'. Also, in my experience, I have never seen a snooker table that did not have rounded jaws. I've played the game in Canada, the UK, China, Cuba, and other parts of Europe, and every table I've been on had rounded jaws. So, I am unclear as to your assertion above, regarding the round jaws of American snooker tables as being unlike those of the British tables. As well, what do you mean by 'Shooting the pink off its spot within the D'? Is the pink ball spotted in the D in American snooker? If so, I'd really like to see the rules for this game, as it sounds interesting, to say the least. Thanks for your time.
 
I have seen these rules before and I think they were made up by some pool players who tripped over a snooker table one day and decided to play a game. I myself play Irish snooker rules (you make a ball--you drink a beer...)
 
DeHouser said:
Dale,
I'm going to need some further clarifications, regarding American snooker. In my experience (Like Rebound, I'm Canadian), a snooker table is a snooker table; a 'billiard table' either has no pockets or is a common misnomer for a 'pool table'. Also, in my experience, I have never seen a snooker table that did not have rounded jaws. I've played the game in Canada, the UK, China, Cuba, and other parts of Europe, and every table I've been on had rounded jaws. So, I am unclear as to your assertion above, regarding the round jaws of American snooker tables as being unlike those of the British tables. As well, what do you mean by 'Shooting the pink off its spot within the D'? Is the pink ball spotted in the D in American snooker? If so, I'd really like to see the rules for this game, as it sounds interesting, to say the least. Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

The table I played on in England, and all the ones I've seen in pics, videos,
etc, indeed do have rounded cushions, but much less severe than the
pockets on American tables. The 'angle' allows you to pot a ball by
'sliding down the rail' harder than on a pool table, but virtually
impossible on an American table.

In merry ole England they call it a Billiard table - or at least they used to.

Dale
 
I've played a little snooker on tables that were cut that tight, but thankfully not more than a couple. Most of the tables in this area HAD reasonably rounded pockets and you could make a down the rail shot with at least a medium speed. Certainly not anywhere near as forgiving as a typical pool table - accuracy was still required.

But on those ridiculously tight tables you couldn't make a rail shot from 4" with a soft stroke. One was set up that way strictly for golf and the other must have been someone's mistake.
 
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