this is also the reason europeans don't obsess over fargorate.. laikre, gnadeberg and romppanen are in reality higher than that. tracking the juniors is difficult with this method as they develop fast
USA vs Europe: past, present, and future
- Thread starter mikepage
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I don't think you're making a compelling case for Corey NOT putting in at least 10,000 hours. I reject the whole idea anyway, but it's still a nice talking point. If he was close to 4,000 hours by the time he was 16, where do you think he was by the time the rest of us became aware of him and he was winning major tournaments?
It really comes down to money, once again.
25 years ago, I told the young players at the pool hall to quit immediately when they asked how they could get up to my level (probably 600 fargo back then if it existed).
I maxed out at what would have been perhaps 650-675 speed, but that never paid off what I lost in money, women, and whatever else I could have learned to do in all that time.
As much as I love this game, I wish I could get that time back and do something else with it.
A career in pool in the US is one in a million unless we are counting giving lessons, raffling off equipment from sponsors, running tournaments, etc.
Unless things change and pool players can make a good living in the states -from playing, things will not, and should not change.
All true except -- if the game can be kept in its proper place in the hierarchy, it can provide a lifetime of inexpensive enjoyment. I'm super grateful I've had it as a hobby. It can be WAY more family friendly than say -- golf, as all you need is a home table. It certainly caused me some issues in my younger years but at this point in my life it's an amazing escape from the real troubles in life.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
This is a very reasonable and accurate of assessment of myself. I find most players have this one thing in common and that is to get better. Like golf, billiards is a hard game to master, but once you master the game it will always be there. As mentioned, I no longer practice and there are young players at the pool hall who have never seen me play. All I do is talk about the past players that came and went. One day I picked up a stick and started shooting and they were really surprise how good I was. We're talking about nothing special here. Just running racks by myself which anyone can basically do. It surprised them because they have never seen me play. The point of the story is I also maxed out my game and called it a day. To improve myself any more I would need 4 hours a day "practicing".
For me....it is very easy going from beginner to good; good to great too....but from great to elite is a bigger journey than easy to good. So I called it quits but I can still shoot a mean game and enjoy the game more now.
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
I know what you mean. Pocketing balls is such a stress reliever.
I belive it is, if you get obsessed enough with the game from a very young age.
All you want to do is improve, get better. Tournaments and stuff come later.
As long as, you got some where to play. and you enjoy what your doing. Endless hours will follow. Its always been the way, the younger you are, the more time you got on your side.
Why do you play at all? It sounds like you dont really like the game? Pool is not a waste of time any more than any other endeavor that the young participate in if like anything else the proper prospective is maintained. There are millions of kids playing sports that they wont gain from when they get to high school or college and they certainly wnot be playing those sports at 60 years old.
Its not the only sports where theres little Money to be made, its just the one I wish paid more.
I don’t think it can be done on your own, you need peers, sparring partners. People to push, that push back. Videos are fine, hours on your home table, great. I don’t think anyone ever actually got good that way.
At the start its just good, to get your foot in the door with enough table time, but your right it will only get you so far, at some point you think... who can i play to get better. Its the one thing, that will make you really competitive. Also bit of help, along the way also helps too.
I was thinking the same thing. Really strong USA player who wisely chose another path apparently which I fully understand given the lack of $ in "pro" pool.
I’m saying by the time he was 16, everyone knew he was going to be a world beater. No ifs ands or buts. He was already pro level then by far. Yes, he got a little better after that.
The 10k hrs is from one guy’s book that just stuck out as an easy quote and the country has been quoting since. Probably misquoting.
was he a contemporary of Bergman and Woodward? If so, was he considered to be on their level?
From what I remember he was competing well in 2011 or 12. I saw him at Tunica. He beat Earl on the 10’ Bigfoot tournament. He quit pool shortly after that. I’m guessing he was about 20 then.
You’re missing one Mike…there’s a kid down in South Texas that’s a higher Fargo than all those US players listed. He needs some financial backing so he doesn’t have to pick up some labor job over the next 5 years and stunt his development….But if he can stay focused on the game, i think he’s the next guy.
This is nota list of the best junior players. It is entrants in one tournament. From US it doesn't have, for examples, Lazarro Martinez (723), Kash Keaton (723), Landon Hollingsworth (711).
Nor does it have all Europeans. A few examples are Yuma Doerner, 770 and Szymon Kural, also 770. I think Moritz Neuhausen, 793, just turned 20.
Yup, caveat emptor, for sure. This here activity is for entertainment purposes only. Venture as deep into the weeds as you like, but don't let it prevent you from getting laid and eating steak.
If you break it down to two parts “Find the savants” and “develop the talent”, the U.S. might actually be favorable on the first item in the social media world, but is seemingly lacking at developing talent.
My thought process here is that the number of basement pool tables in the U.S. should dwarf Europe, as more land, larger houses, and lower energy costs are all favorable here. That’s how 10 year olds get on tables. If some kid starts running racks on his basement table it’s damn sure showing up on social media. Tiger Woods has videos of him as a 4 year old just “getting” golf (little did he know at the time low-rent chain restaurant waitresses would be his downfall).
The next step then is where Europe excels and takes those kids and develops them. Of course, just like the lower population density (and larger houses) of the USA makes home tables more common, higher population densities make it easier to run programs for niche activities in Europe, so it’s a catch 22 for the US.