Use of the term Side English - Opinions Please.

Colin Colenso

Colin Colenso

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please tell me if you think the term side english is required sometimes or should we just use the term english when refering to side spin on the CB?

I have heard the term stop english used. Are there any other uses of the term english, such as draw english or follow english?

All opinions appreciated, unless of course that opinion happens to be that I am an idiot.:grin:

Remember I grew up in a snooker world where we use side on the white pill and proper english when we speak.
 
Using the oclock terminology might be good. I thought it was funny when my insructor would say, "Put some 5oclock on this shot at medium speed. Maybe more like 5:15."

He is very precise.
 
As far as BCA instructors are concerned, we define only sidespin as english. This allows us to differentiate, for our student, top and/or bottom, from top and/or bottom with sidespin/english. Topspin and backspin are not english, unless right or left spin is added to the follow or draw shot. You can apply sidespin to the CB very easily, striking off center on the horizontal axis.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Colin Colenso said:
I mean moreso in general use of the term. Such as, "be careful when applying side english".

Colin

btw: Luxury, I like your transfered draw video! http://youtube.com/watch?v=lX2OKcbjojU
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I was taught that Englishmen introduced cue ball side spin to the Americans, therefore, a cue ball (technically) doesn't have "English" on it unless it is spinning sideways. So that's the way I've always taught my students and it seems to help simplify things in their minds.

Roger
 
I think you can call it anything you want as long as your point is getting across to the person you're talking to. Personally, I say right and left English, sometimes I'll say right and left spin. Then I say follow and draw for top and bottom.

So, for example I might say to someone "You need to hit this with low outside" or "You need to hit it with high inside"

The image is pretty clear.
MULLY
 
Thanks guys, I had heard that english is supposed to mean side english, hence the use of side is redundant.

How univerally understood is that? I mean, do you find some people using terms such as stop english or draw english or side english very often?

As I am writing about it, I wonder if I need to clarify that for part of the audience.

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
Thanks guys, I had heard that english is supposed to mean side english, hence the use of side is redundant.

How univerally understood is that? I mean, do you find some people using terms such as stop english or draw english or side english very often?

As I am writing about it, I wonder if I need to clarify that for part of the audience.

Colin
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Ok, I gotcha now. Yes, Americans say left and right English. We don't say left side English or right side English. I have heard some commentators on Accu-Stats tapes use the term top English and bottom English but it sounded really funky when they said it.
MULLY
 
Colin Colenso said:
Please tell me if you think the term side english is required sometimes or should we just use the term english when refering to side spin on the CB?

I have heard the term stop english used. Are there any other uses of the term english, such as draw english or follow english?

All opinions appreciated, unless of course that opinion happens to be that I am an idiot.:grin:

Remember I grew up in a snooker world where we use side on the white pill and proper english when we speak.
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The term side-spin is the correct terminology used for hitting the cue ball directly right or left of the actual center of the ball. Simply put, if you were looking at a clock the center I am speaking of, is where the hands are held in place by the attachment pin to the face of the clock.

Side spin, is maximum Right or Left English and it will have a different effect than Top or Bottom Left/Right English. This is due to the direction and amount of rotation created when the cue ball is stroked directly left or right of center. So side spin would be either 3 or 9 o'clock when being applied to English.
All I can say is test it on a pool table the difference will be immediate and obvious.
 
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Colin,
When I'm teaching, I try to avoid the term "english" just for that reason. Right spin, left spin, top spin or bottom spin seem to avoid any confusion in the minds of my students. I explain the term, but rarely use it when giving direction to my students.
Steve
 
I don't think that the directional descriptors are all that huge of an issue.

However, the terms "inside" and "outside" are more generalizable than "left" and "right". Best of all, they already have the "side" built into the word, and therefore obviate your stated problem.

The real problem is in describing how much English. Using "tips" as a unit is a fiasco, and percent of maximum isn't much better, because it assumes that you know exactly where maximum is.

Personally I think the contact point for English should be stated in mm. off of center. For example, what is commonly referred to as one tip, would be better described as "7mm of inside English", (1/4 inch is close enough for the metrically challenged). If you know the diameter of your cue tip, you have an automatic measuring stick right where you need it.
 
Thanks guys,

I'm familiar with the use of inside and outside english, as preferable to left and right english in certain conditions.

From the feedback I'm convinced now to drop the 'side' from 'side english'. Using the terms, left spin, right spin, top left etc is also a good idea.

And Dead Crab, good idea with the tip offset measurement in mm from center ball. It's pretty rare we go more that 7mm off center anyway, so having a term like 1 tip, which to some people means ~14mm and others ~7mm, really has the potential to set up communication problems.

Colin
 
Have never heard any pool player or commentator anywhere in the world who is completely fluent in English (the language) ever use the term "side english" though have heard it used by an Indian who was far from fluent. Wouldn't be surprised if you might have heard it occasionally in China while living there Colin, for similar linguistic reasons.

When age and lack of practice set in I personally have certainly had to greatly increase the frequency of using optimistic "body english" after the strike:smile:
 
We sometimes say, "You've gotta juice it to make that shot work."

And sometimes we say after a miss, "You put way too much jism on that!"

Jeff Livingston
 
pooltchr said:
Colin,
When I'm teaching, I try to avoid the term "english" just for that reason. Right spin, left spin, top spin or bottom spin seem to avoid any confusion in the minds of my students. I explain the term, but rarely use it when giving direction to my students.
Steve
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That what I also use when talking to anyone that I feel might get confused.

Seems the most simple and clear.

If it's somone I know will understand then I don't actually use any 'term'. I'll just say use a little top , top left etc. :)
 
Colin Colenso said:
Please tell me if you think the term side english is required sometimes or should we just use the term english when refering to side spin on the CB?

I have heard the term stop english used. Are there any other uses of the term english, such as draw english or follow english?

All opinions appreciated, unless of course that opinion happens to be that I am an idiot.:grin:

Remember I grew up in a snooker world where we use side on the white pill and proper english when we speak.
Click to expand...


Glad to see you posting again, Colin. Welcome back.

I believe that many people in general consider "English" as the positioning of the cue tip in a place other than CENTER of the cue ball. High English, Low English, Side English... I've heard all of these and it comes primarily from new players that are just getting into the sport but it carries over into their later pool lives.

The glossary of Dr Dave helps enforce this type of thinking: "English: term usually used to refer to sidespin applied to the cue ball, but can also be used to refer to any type of spin applied to the cue ball (e.g., with draw and follow shots)." http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/glossary.pdf

I try to say Side Spin, Low left, Low Right, High Right, High Left, Draw and Follow instead of the "English" reference, although I still occasionally still say >>>> English. :grin:

Are you still playing competitively? For those of you who don't know Colin; he has made some interesting videos that could help you with your break. You can "google" him up on youtube.com . :wink:
JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Glad to see you posting again, Colin. Welcome back.

I believe that many people in general consider "English" as the positioning of the cue tip in a place other than CENTER of the cue ball. High English, Low English, Side English... I've heard all of these and it comes primarily from new players that are just getting into the sport but it carries over into their later pool lives.

The glossary of Dr Dave helps enforce this type of thinking: "English: term usually used to refer to sidespin applied to the cue ball, but can also be used to refer to any type of spin applied to the cue ball (e.g., with draw and follow shots)." http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/glossary.pdf

I try to say Side Spin, Low left, Low Right, High Right, High Left, Draw and Follow instead of the "English" reference, although I still occasionally still say >>>> English. :grin:

Are you still playing competitively? For those of you who don't know Colin; he has made some interesting videos that could help you with your break. You can "google" him up on youtube.com . :wink:
JoeyA
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Hey Joey,

Good to see you're still around to :)

Not much US style pool around here in Australia, but have got the National Champs for 9-ball and 8-ball coming up in about 7 weeks. Finally got my table up here so hopefully I'll be getting back into some form by then.

Cheers,
Colin
 
Well, sure you need to qualify it. First of all, there's no such thing as "stop english". A stop shot is accomplished by sliding the CB into contact with the OB, when both balls are in a straight line. Sidespin has no application in this shot. Sidespin also has no application in a stun shot...unless you want the CB to spin off the cushion, after contact. Again...we instructors want our students to clearly understand the difference between just draw/backspin, and draw/backspin with sidespin added...so we don't use the term "draw english" either! Hope this helps...:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Colin Colenso said:
How univerally understood is that? I mean, do you find some people using terms such as stop english or draw english or side english very often?

As I am writing about it, I wonder if I need to clarify that for part of the audience.

Colin
Click to expand...
 
Actually Joey...In my experience, traveling all over the country, the people most likely to use the term "english" to mean ANY type of contact off of the vertical or horizontal axis, generally live in the south, and more often than not, are quite experienced players...as opposed to new players.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

JoeyA said:
I believe that many people in general consider "English" as the positioning of the cue tip in a place other than CENTER of the cue ball. High English, Low English, Side English... I've heard all of these and it comes primarily from new players that are just getting into the sport but it carries over into their later pool lives.

JoeyA
Click to expand...
 
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