Used DrDaves Break Speed measurement using sound

[justnum]

The technique to measure break speed by sound is fun to try.
Audacity is my audio tool for recording, it measures seconds in thousandths .001.

Fargorate is for aggregate player ranking.

Individual statistics like break speed and monitoring it throughout the match could be used as an "endurance metric"

Instead of pocketing balls. I think players could have better self assessment tools for their physical ability.

 

[David in FL]

Just as an FYI, there are smart phone apps available to do the same thing...

 

[justnum]

Just as an FYI, there are smart phone apps available to do the same thing...

I am planning to have a next post with computer code that does the same thing as the app.

There is a production side to billiards.

Should that be in a separate part of the forum?

 

[Z-Nole]

Wonder what the speed is for the typical one pocket break?

 

[David in FL]

Wonder what the speed is for the typical one pocket break?

Probably not that different from my nine ball break...

 

[justnum]

Wonder what the speed is for the typical one pocket break?

If you want to practice open any youtube video with your favorite one pocket match.

Use a microphone and just watch for the sound peaks in the recording.

I am interested in developing that type of statistics for various types of shots. Speed matters and no one else is measuring it.

The main purpose would be a training tool for players to determine ideal ranges for a shot before it breaks down. Imagine a cut shot, whats the lower and upper limit until pocketing fails.

Same for jump shots instead of guessing by distance or feel, they can use statistics to have good estimates for how to play it.

 

[Bavafongoul]

If you want to practice open any youtube video with your favorite one pocket match.

Use a microphone and just watch for the sound peaks in the recording.

I am interested in developing that type of statistics for various types of shots. Speed matters and no one else is measuring it.

The main purpose would be a training tool for players to determine ideal ranges for a shot before it breaks down. Imagine a cut shot, whats the lower and upper limit until pocketing fails.

Same for jump shots instead of guessing by distance or feel, they can use statistics to have good estimates for how to play it.

I’ve used a baseball radar gun from my children’s sports endeavors, i.e., baseball & softball.
The device appears to be very accurate. You measure cue ball speed before hitting the rack.

 

[justnum]

I’ve used a baseball radar gun from my children’s sports endeavors, i.e., baseball & softball.
The device appears to be very accurate. You measure cue ball speed before hitting the rack.

I thought about that but then I would need a person to operate the speed gun.
And that won't work for analysis of video posted online. Old videos where audio is where preserved but video is not at today's standard.

cue ball speed is the difference of two contacts: cue stick and cue ball then cueball and object ball

 

[kling&allen]

I use the Predator app to calculate break speed based on sound. I think it costs $4, which is the only downside. It would be neat to see the correlation between break speed, balls pocketed on break, and win percentage. Perhaps the pool stats guy already computes this?

 

[jimmyco]

Been hundreds of free apps out there for years.

 

[justnum]

I use the Predator app to calculate break speed based on sound. I think it costs $4, which is the only downside. It would be neat to see the correlation between break speed, balls pocketed on break, and win percentage. Perhaps the pool stats guy already computes this?

this could be a completely automated process.

Yes thank you for mentioning this

 

[justnum]

Been hundreds of free apps out there for years.

Ive been watching how they "promote" cue sticks on the internet.

In order to avoid sounding like a paid advertisement, just mention it as a review.

Like what is your favorite billiard apps for training?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I’ve used a baseball radar gun from my children’s sports endeavors, i.e., baseball & softball.
The device appears to be very accurate. You measure cue ball speed before hitting the rack.

If I recall correcty, the sound-based apps are something like 10 times more accurate than radar.

pj
chgo

 

[iusedtoberich]

I

I use the Predator app to calculate break speed based on sound. I think it costs $4, which is the only downside. It would be neat to see the correlation between break speed, balls pocketed on break, and win percentage. Perhaps the pool stats guy already computes this?

I believe they made it free some time ago. I recall paying the $4 I think before predator bought the app. I may be misremembering. Funny thing though I don’t think I used it after the first week I had it, which was probably about 10 years ago.

 

[hang-the-9]

I

I believe they made it free some time ago. I recall paying the $4 I think before predator bought the app. I may be misremembering. Funny thing though I don’t think I used it after the first week I had it, which was probably about 10 years ago.

Yep, measuring break speed is fun to look at as a game, but it's not really important when it comes to having a successful break. It's like how fast a person can run vs escape rate from lions. Sometimes you trip.

With how the tables and racking is these days (and by these days I mean for about 20 years now), a faster break speed would not mean you will make more balls or will be able to run out more from the break. In fact the template racks do best with a medium break to 2/3rd speed for making the corner ball or the second ball in 10 ball.

Back in the days of slower cloth and looser racks you would need more power in the break to get balls in.

 

[measureman]

I

I believe they made it free some time ago. I recall paying the $4 I think before predator bought the app. I may be misremembering. Funny thing though I don’t think I used it after the first week I had it, which was probably about 10 years ago.

Yeah I had one.
After about a week of seeing my break speed always between 19 & 20 MPH I stopped using it.

 

[fastone371]

If I recall correcty, the sound-based apps are something like 10 times more accurate than radar.

pj
chgo

I have both and actually compared the Predator Break Speed app with my Break-Rak radar yesterday, they came out exactly the same down to the 1/10th as long as you have the app set up properly. Unfortunately neither makes my dismal 20MPH break any faster.

 

[Chili Palmer]

If you want to practice open any youtube video with your favorite one pocket match.

Use a microphone and just watch for the sound peaks in the recording.

I am interested in developing that type of statistics for various types of shots. Speed matters and no one else is measuring it.

The main purpose would be a training tool for players to determine ideal ranges for a shot before it breaks down. Imagine a cut shot, whats the lower and upper limit until pocketing fails.

Same for jump shots instead of guessing by distance or feel, they can use statistics to have good estimates for how to play it.

Can you elaborate on the "ideal ranges" comment? I'm curious how you're going to align the speed with pocketing fails. The reason I ask is because, yes, speed affects the shot (induced throw, etc.) but there's much more to it then that. Did the shot break down simply because you hit the ball hard or did it break down because the PLAYER can't shoot straight at X amount of power?

I'm not a scientist and I'm not sure how this would apply to pool or make anyone better, but I do think it's interesting.

 

[justnum]

Can you elaborate on the "ideal ranges" comment? I'm curious how you're going to align the speed with pocketing fails. The reason I ask is because, yes, speed affects the shot (induced throw, etc.) but there's much more to it then that. Did the shot break down simply because you hit the ball hard or did it break down because the PLAYER can't shoot straight at X amount of power?

I'm not a scientist and I'm not sure how this would apply to pool or make anyone better, but I do think it's interesting.

Chili sometimes my threads are for discussions.

For shots near the gutter if you dont hit with enough speed the gutter takes over and moves the ball.

I talked about this when shooting straight along the long rail at low speeds. However at high speeds its not noticeable.

For breaking they said just hit the sweet spot with the purpose of controlling the cue ball not destroying the rack with obscene amounts of power.

The new direction I was hoping to take this is how many opening 9ball or 10 ball breaks are there that likely guarantee an opening safety battle. Few players go for the three foul rule in competition play.

If breaks can be opened up statistically enough, then can the same be said for locking down the first shot on the table.

 

[dr_dave]

The technique to measure break speed by sound is fun to try.

For those interested, the basic procedure is here:

how to determine break speed​