Using a jump cue playing 1P or Straight Pool

Hail Mary Shot said:
exactly the point I was referring to. the point of a safe is to punish your opponent and not to give him an easy way out. where the legalization of jumps nullified or lessened the effectivity of containing your opponent. as you mentioned, it's easier and safer compared to kicking.

same reason why BIH is crap. why would you let your opponent get out easily becoz of that rule? they should be punished rather than rewarded, right? they should earn it the hard way, right?
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Thats the great thing about gambling you can make your rules up front, mine would be in one pocket jumping allowed if you want, if not I do not care either way. Because for the most part if you jump with a jump stick in one pocket you will probably let whitey loose:D If you jump with a full stick that IMO is no big deal. But whatever you do you had better work out the rules ahead of time...........

In nine ball, call shot and no ball in hand, only behind the line, this rules out alot of accidental luck. Gotta keep the nine on the break alive though.
 
This topic was discussed in the straight pool forum several months ago, and I believe that this statement by SJM say it best - as it relates to 14.1 ...

sjm said:
I must admit that at the onset of the final on Saturday, I wasn't really rooting for either player. That is, until See took out his jump cue, at which time I instantly became an Ortmann fan. I was absolutely delighted when See missed the very next shot, and glad that he lost.

In the qualifier I played in, everyone pretty much agreed that jump cues and straight pool had little to do with each other, and the use of jump cues was barred by popular demand.

Speaking for myself, I feel that if somebody breaks Mosconi's high run record having used a jump cue even once, the run should not go into the record books. If you butcher the shape to the point that you have no shot with your regular playing cue, you return to the chair. That's the way it always was and the way it ought to be.

For the record, as Schmidt's jump in the quarterfinal against Harriman was executed with a full cue, it was fine by me.
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I'm sorry, but if the 14.1 rules allow using a jump cue, I don't see any reason why the records and PB's would be disallowed or in any way diminished if the run has a jump shot in the middle. I understand the game of 14.1 is old and there is a "code of ethics" involved, but if you duck and avoid using a jump shot in a tournament situation just because you feel that's a cheap and easy way of getting out of trouble, the blame is on you and you shouldn't take pride on your decision or think "I did the right thing". That is, if you are there playing to win and not just "to shoot pool". Your opponent shouldn't be insulted in any way either if you play by the rulebook and grab your jump cue and fire away. I have seen a few pretty amazing jump shots in straight pool tournaments, including myself having to make one in a recent tournament semifinal (well, frankly, it wasn't amazing :) ). And no, there was no reasonable way to kick or combo it in.

There's always going to be some local rules, especially in 1pocket, but I'd suggest the jump shot in straight pool shouldn't be looked down while it's allowed in the rulebook. Local rules might disallow it, but that's perfectly fine as there are many things that are allowed/disallowed in local 1pocket rules. If a player jumps out of trouble and runs the set on you, you shouldn't be offended, with the current ruleset, it's just part of the game, although a very tiny part.

I don't see this "problem" in 1pocket, because there are much less situations where a jump shot would come handy. Most of the time you'd be losing the cueball anyway and that's not good news in 1hole for the shooter.

Just my $0.02
 
mjantti said:
I'm sorry, but if the 14.1 rules allow using a jump cue, I don't see any reason why the records and PB's would be disallowed or in any way diminished if the run has a jump shot in the middle. I understand the game of 14.1 is old and there is a "code of ethics" involved, but if you duck and avoid using a jump shot in a tournament situation just because you feel that's a cheap and easy way of getting out of trouble, the blame is on you and you shouldn't take pride on your decision or think "I did the right thing". That is, if you are there playing to win and not just "to shoot pool". Your opponent shouldn't be insulted in any way either if you play by the rulebook and grab your jump cue and fire away. I have seen a few pretty amazing jump shots in straight pool tournaments, including myself having to make one in a recent tournament semifinal (well, frankly, it wasn't amazing :) ). And no, there was no reasonable way to kick or combo it in.

There's always going to be some local rules, especially in 1pocket, but I'd suggest the jump shot in straight pool shouldn't be looked down while it's allowed in the rulebook. Local rules might disallow it, but that's perfectly fine as there are many things that are allowed/disallowed in local 1pocket rules. If a player jumps out of trouble and runs the set on you, you shouldn't be offended, with the current ruleset, it's just part of the game, although a very tiny part.

I don't see this "problem" in 1pocket, because there are much less situations where a jump shot would come handy. Most of the time you'd be losing the cueball anyway and that's not good news in 1hole for the shooter.

Just my $0.02
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Mikko

I respect your position, but while playing the game of 14.1 ...

Mosconi never used a jump cue...
Greenleaf never used a jump cue
Crane never used a jump cue...
Balsis never used a jump cue...
Caras never used a jump cue...
Butera never used a jump cue...
Murphy never used a jump cue...
Ervolino never used a jump cue...

I think it is a very safe bet to say that they never performed a jump shot either. Sorry, but myself an many others are able to say the same exact thing. Keep it in 9 ball and 8 ball - It doesn't belong in 14.1. Hopefully in the near future they will change the current rule.
 
Jump cues are disallowed in the 1 hole rules but not in the current WSRs for 14.1 (that I could find)

In the General Rules of the WSRs, jump cues are specifically permitted and not ruled out in the separate 14.1 rules (that I could find).

General Rules

1.3
a) Cue Stick ? The player is permitted to switch between cue sticks during the match, such as break, jump and normal cues. He may use either a built-in extender or an add-on extender to increase the length of the stick.
 
I saw Mosconi do a jump masse shot in a straight pool exhibition in the late 60's. He jumped over the very edge of one ball and masse'd around another object ball. Of course, this was done with his regular shooting cue.

I don't know if he was trying to jump when trying the masse but the cue ball definitely left the table surface during the shot.

The reason I know this is because I was his opponent. I was sitting about 8 feet away from the table.

Oh, by the way, he made the shot. It was a thing of beauty!!! LOL

Stones
 
Blackjack said:
Mikko

I respect your position, but while playing the game of 14.1 ...

Mosconi never used a jump cue...
Greenleaf never used a jump cue
Crane never used a jump cue...
Balsis never used a jump cue...
Caras never used a jump cue...
Butera never used a jump cue...
Murphy never used a jump cue...
Ervolino never used a jump cue...

I think it is a very safe bet to say that they never performed a jump shot either. Sorry, but myself an many others are able to say the same exact thing. Keep it in 9 ball and 8 ball - It doesn't belong in 14.1. Hopefully in the near future they will change the current rule.
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I couldn't agree more with you as a straight pool enthusiastic. The jump shot is not part of 14.1 or at least it shouldn't be. What my point is that if the rules allow it, you should use it, because it's part of modern pool. I understand SJM's remarks on See's jump shot against Ortmann but to me that proves that the player has creativity and imagination. I have to say that I never think of playing a jump shot in 14.1, but the shot presents itself maybe once in 10000 shots. I bet it is going to be hard to make the jump shot illegal in 14.1, because from the Federation (WPA) viewpoint, the argument "I has not been part of the game before".

This was my shot from the last tournament, was left in this predicament after my secondary break shot. Now tell me that if you jump well, you are going to pass this jump shot in a major tournament semifinal just because you think jump shots aren't supposed to be used in 14.1 ? :confused: And yes, this was the 3-inning match in which my opponent ran 118 and 32-out, the score in this situation is roughly 118-40 in favour of my opponent.

CueTable Help



Maybe it was bad karma, because after making the 3-ball, I got corner-hooked and missed the next one. :eek: ;)
 
Scott Lee said:
In those two games?...never...jumping is too risky, in losing control of the CB. A good 1P or 14.1 player will never need to jump a ball.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott.. you high? lol.. I just played a top 5 One holer the other night... Every time he was sewed up, he jump banked a ball back into his hole!

Maybe you meant with a jump cue?...
 
Josh Palmer said:
Scott.. you high? lol.. I just played a top 5 One holer the other night... Every time he was sewed up, he jump banked a ball back into his hole!

Maybe you meant with a jump cue?...
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I think the whole issue has been on jumping with a jump cue.
 
mjantti said:
I think the whole issue has been on jumping with a jump cue.
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Yeah...one time I saw Rafael Martinez jump over the whole rack with his playing cue to pocket a ball while playing one hole:eek: :eek: That was pretty amazing!!!
 
ABall said:
Yeah...one time I saw Rafael Martinez jump over the whole rack with his playing cue to pocket a ball while playing one hole:eek: :eek: That was pretty amazing!!!
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But Rafael Martinez is not from this planet :) Makes amazing shots...

I've seen Niels Feijen jump over a full rack and make a ball table length away and run 70-something out against Oliver Ortmann who needed around 10 points. This was in last 8 or last 16 in European Championships. Nasty...
 
Scott Lee said:
In those two games?...never...jumping is too risky, in losing control of the CB. A good 1P or 14.1 player will never need to jump a ball.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I partially agree that it is risky, but as badly as I've been playing, I've needed to do that very thing on many occasions lately.
 
softshot said:
look man... here is how I see it...

One hour of kicking practice is worth 5 hours of jumping practice...AND you control the cueball..

jumping is an easy out for bad pool players with too much money..
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Convince Tony Watson or Dennis Hatch of that and you MIGHT have an argument.
 
little bubba said:
softshot, I was thinking mainly in terms of getting out of a trap your opponent left you. The only time I can recently remember doing it was when my opponent left a ball deep in his pocket playing 1P, he had two other balls tied up about two diamonds up table, he protected the ball in the pocket with the two other balls. Cue ball about a foot from the tied up balls, I jump and made the ball in his pocket and stuck the cue ball in it's place. I only needed one, and he needed all three. Thanks for the reply. little bubba
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I thought you posed an interesting question! And your example would be a great time to use a jump shot with your regular pole. I see you took some undeserved guff for daring to suggest a jump shot in 1P or 14.1...:rolleyes:

I don't have a jump shot, but if I did, I could imagine some rare cases --like your example-- where it could be used. I recall Grady's tape in which he showed several situations where a jump shot could be handy. I believe most of those were half-jumps though.

Doc
 
gulfportdoc said:
. I recall Grady's tape in which he showed several situations where a jump shot could be handy. I believe most of those were half-jumps though.

Doc
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on occasions I had to do jump shots but I did them with a playing cue.
One of my practice partners in the past when I was in Newmexico used to jump the cue over the entire ball and then bank a shot into his pocket.It was spectacular to watch.:cool:
 
i once saw Billy I and Joey Barnes trying to match up and Billy refused to play unless Joey wouldnt use a jump cue. He said "its a disgrace to the game".

I dont know if I fully agree with that statement but I can see his thinking behind it.
 
If allowed, I will use it to get out of a trap. I will say this, those of you who do not like jump cues, will absolutely hate the air jump by predator if your opponent knows how to use it. I can jump as close as two inches to a ball (accurately for a short distance, say two feet). I beleive JoeyA posted earlier that shots can be made as close as a cube of chalk!
After reading all the replies, I am on the fence, I see both sides.
 
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