Go play CJ some with YOUR system.
I’ll have him spot you some balls and you can bring whatever scientific measuring and calculating devices that you can fit in your bag.
I will back him for all you can stand.
Using "Center Ball" - is it good advice or a hidden disadvantage?
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
I’ll have him spot you some balls and you can bring whatever scientific measuring and calculating devices that you can fit in your bag.
I will back him for all you can stand.
Do you bowl?
How many players play a straight ball, unless it is for a spare that requires it?
Do you see them throwing hooks and then backup balls from side to side?
Why not?
I think they use a system.
Let’s make it even simpler.
How about setting up a wide variety of individual shots and playing a game of “park the cue ball?”
He will use inside on every shot and you can use as many thousands of spins as you can calculate.
We will bet on who controls the cue ball better and parks it in the desired spot.
He will be spotting you a million spins to one.
Hitting the "pocket" from an angle produces more strikes. If it's just about accuracy, why wouldn't every shot "require" it?
In case you hadn't noticed, bowling isn't pool.
Neither is golf, by the way.
You're welcome.
pj
chgo
When and where do we set up the “CJ vs PJ Inside Outside In The Middle Shootout”?
I need to tell CJ so he can gas up the car.
To repeat: If him beating me proves I'm wrong, then him beating you proves you're wrong. Or are you saying you'd beat him?
pj
chgo
although i took a 20+- yr hiatus from the game i first read (on AZ) about TOI a few yrs ago and my initial reaction was that CJ was peddling pooey
i started to bang balls and tenderize rails a while ago and WALLA, seeing how i play like an apa 3 it might be time to experiment so i tried the TOI technique
for the first couple of weeks i continued to tenderize rails because i was using inside english and not just a smidge of inside with somewhat of a "pop" stroke
my takeaway is that it is a powerful tool and while there are situations i'm not comfortable using it i think it's worth a try for esp intermediate and stronger skill level players, weaker players should first become somewhat familiar with using english before integrating TOI and TOO into their skill set
hit em straight and good rolls to all.
i started to bang balls and tenderize rails a while ago and WALLA, seeing how i play like an apa 3 it might be time to experiment so i tried the TOI technique
for the first couple of weeks i continued to tenderize rails because i was using inside english and not just a smidge of inside with somewhat of a "pop" stroke
my takeaway is that it is a powerful tool and while there are situations i'm not comfortable using it i think it's worth a try for esp intermediate and stronger skill level players, weaker players should first become somewhat familiar with using english before integrating TOI and TOO into their skill set
hit em straight and good rolls to all.
It isn’t about pocketing balls.
It is about controlling the cue ball with consistency.
Don’t you have a table?
It is COVID lockdown now and you could have hundreds of hours of practice on your own table before CJ showed up for the Shootout.
I have never said that any way of doing anything is “wrong”, if you can control the outcome consistently.
I am saying that some ways of doing things may make a person more consistent and it isn’t a bad idea to explore different things.
If you can’t handle TOI, do whatever you can handle. That is my philosophy.
The question of whether TOI works for someone is answered by trying to learn it and comparing it to what they were doing before.
If you can’t figure it out, or don’t think it is for you, try something else.
People come on here and badmouth things because “they” can’t make them work or see things differently. How is CJ able to make it work? How am I able to make it work? I have played for over 50 years and worked in a pool hall from the time I was a kid. I can spin the cue ball as much as anybody, but I choose not to because of the playing system I use which allows ME to keep a tighter string on the cue ball.
You can do whatever you feel like doing.
That is up to you.
You project the TOI system as something negative.
I project it as something that can can be positive.
Only the players can decide what is best for themselves.
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They are “hooking” (spinning) the ball for a reason.
It allows them to control an “angle” using the same repeatable swing and release every time. A bowler usually keeps a similar hook for most multi-pin spares...they don’t throw backup balls with the opposite spin when spares are on the opposite side of the lane. They adjust by changing their body angle and approach. They don’t keep mixing up spins.
A TOI allows players to have a more consistent and controllable “angle” when the cue ball is traveling around the table after contact with the object ball. It is about keeping the cue ball “dead” so that it comes off the rails at more natural angles without the added spin.
Hook (bowling) - Wikipedia
"The purpose of the hook is to give the ball a better angle at the 1-3 pocket (right-handers) or 1-2 pocket (left-handers.) to achieve a strike."lol
Just like TOI and golf.
pj
chgo
I just posted that in the link above your post.
The TOI gives the cue ball a better (more natural) angle coming off the rails after hitting the object ball.
I am thinking of it in a totally different perspective than you are.
You are looking at it ackbasswards.
I mentioned bowling because they are trying to consistently control an angle. Bowlers are using an angle to come into a pocket and that is their goal. My goal is to control the angle coming off the rail after the ball has come out of the “pocket” (hitting the object ball).
If you shoot the cue ball into a rail with no spin it will come off the rail with little, to no, spin and travel a natural path. Spin alters that path. I am trying to have the cue ball come out of the pocket with no spin so that it will follow the same natural path it would have traveled if I had shot the cue ball into the same place on the rail with center ball.
You can calculate, multiply, divide, or whatever you want to do, but don’t tell me the system can’t be learned and used at a very high level...look at CJ.
Knowing pi, or cornbread for that matter, will not help you understand things that require time at the table.
Lord knows.
Bowlers spin the ball to change direction - TOI kills spin to prevent change of direction.
Obviously the same thing. lol
Would you rather talk about golf?
pj
chgo
Go back to your abacus.
Simple question (maybe not for you):
If a ball goes into a rail with no spin, does it come off the rail differently than a ball with spin?
Yes or no?
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I guess that settles it.
Your ego will not allow you to answer the question honestly.
Carry on, Pool Scientist.
Have a jolly good evening.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
So I've been messing around with some touch of inside, just to see what I could see. I find it makes some shots much easier because it has to do with perception. It's kind of like aiming center ball then pivoting one tip to bank a ball close to the rail one diamond. It makes it appear as if you're aiming center ball, though the CB will travel to the edge of the OB and cause it to bank. That little moment of your eyes shifting from the center you were aiming at to the edge where the pivot will put the CB. That little perception change happens immediately because you're already at the right line when you come down. The perception changes yet the shot goes. Physics might say one thing is happening, but it's about trusting what you see with your own eyes. What you see when aiming TOI gives your subconscious/muscle memory the EXACT info it needs to perform the shot, without having to search for it with your conscious mind. With TOI it is basically putting enough inside english to cancel collision induced throw, yet without having to account for it visually and shift your eyes/body around.
CJ, you're going to get a subscription from me after the holidays. I can see where TOI would put you immediately in the zone once you had it incorporated into your game. It's like that moment you see the shot line to the pocket or down at the table getting a feel with your pre shot strokes and everything clicks into a sure shot visually and in your mind. Do you think TOI is a shortcut or trigger for getting in the ZONE?
CJ, you're going to get a subscription from me after the holidays. I can see where TOI would put you immediately in the zone once you had it incorporated into your game. It's like that moment you see the shot line to the pocket or down at the table getting a feel with your pre shot strokes and everything clicks into a sure shot visually and in your mind. Do you think TOI is a shortcut or trigger for getting in the ZONE?
You will understand the benefits when you develop a "Master Shot" as the foundation of your game.
Yes, the Touch of Inside triggers something in the subconscious to go into a zone because the cueball will be doing what you THINK every time. This is not possible when trying to use a Center Ball, because there are conflicting variables.
The "check and balance" is what you indicated, the touch of inside offsets the after-contact-spin and produces a "floating" cueball, the old timers used to say I "have it on a string" - that's why the TOI is not just an Aiming System, it's an overall playing system.
Do you need a pass code to enter the zone?
Do I need a blue tooth to sync with the cue ball.
I understand conflict is not good unless it is done, ‘on the fields of friendly strife’. Could you enunciate the variables so I can confirm that I am on friendly terms with said variables?