using criss cross system for kicking at balls

Lucky_Lew66

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to use the criss cross system for banking balls,and it seems like their was a way to use it to figure out the exact contact point on the rail for kicking at balls also. Anyone know how to use the criss cross system for kicking at balls across the table. The criss cross system is pretty acurate for a one pocket shot where you use pocket speed to lag balls to your hole,but it isnt perfect for making balls,but it does get you close, the human element is always a hard variable to control. Once again, this might be a good question for Bob Jewett,hes the science guy of pool. BTW is Robert Byrnes still alive,hes got to be 80 i would think.
 

zpele

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to use the criss cross system for banking balls,and it seems like their was a way to use it to figure out the exact contact point on the rail for kicking at balls also. Anyone know how to use the criss cross system for kicking at balls across the table. The criss cross system is pretty acurate for a one pocket shot where you use pocket speed to lag balls to your hole,but it isnt perfect for making balls,but it does get you close, the human element is always a hard variable to control. Once again, this might be a good question for Bob Jewett,hes the science guy of pool. BTW is Robert Byrnes still alive,hes got to be 80 i would think.

You may be talking about the X system from 3Cushion. Bob could definitely shed more light on this than me.
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Is this the criss-cross system you're referring to?

crisscrosskickaiming.jpg


I'm not sure what you mean by "kicking at balls across the table"
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Systems are nice....if you got a stroke and table conditions that agree with them.
 

Lucky_Lew66

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the x system

Yep thats it...used it a lot for cross banks wasnt sure about settup for kicks....thats it...just draw perpendicular lines from the balls to the rails and make an x and at the cross...drop a perpendicular to the rail and thats your contact point....thanks man tried to rack my brain to remember that the other night
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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Silver Member
I used to use the criss cross system for banking balls,and it seems like their was a way to use it to figure out the exact contact point on the rail for kicking at balls also. Anyone know how to use the criss cross system for kicking at balls across the table. The criss cross system is pretty acurate for a one pocket shot where you use pocket speed to lag balls to your hole,but it isnt perfect for making balls,but it does get you close, the human element is always a hard variable to control. Once again, this might be a good question for Bob Jewett,hes the science guy of pool. BTW is Robert Byrnes still alive,hes got to be 80 i would think.
Bob Byrne had his 80th a little over a year ago. He is still playing 3-C and pool.

Although the criss-cross system is geometrically accurate, when the ball that is going to hit the cushion is near the cushion the point to hit is harder to judge accurately. By geometrically accurate I mean that it gives the same answer as the mirror system provided that you use the correct reflecting point.

The system is illustrated in Mosconi's book "Winning Pocket Billiards" for playing bank shots.
 

zpele

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Byrne had his 80th a little over a year ago. He is still playing 3-C and pool.

Although the criss-cross system is geometrically accurate, when the ball that is going to hit the cushion is near the cushion the point to hit is harder to judge accurately. By geometrically accurate I mean that it gives the same answer as the mirror system provided that you use the correct reflecting point.

The system is illustrated in Mosconi's book "Winning Pocket Billiards" for playing bank shots.

Bob can you speak to the system I linked to for 3 cushion? I am interested in this system but have had a hard time wrapping my head around it.
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's great to have a system that helps you find the geometric line - I often use the mirror system myself.

One suggestion I would make is to aim at a ghost ball rather than the actual object ball. It seems like common sense, but I see a lot of good players who either aim at the center of the OB or at a spot under the edge of the ball when applying these kicking systems. If you are trying to kick precisely (kicking for a safety or to pocket the ball), and you are using your cue to either measure or visualize lines, the ghost ball is a good way to determine a precise spot to aim it.

It's also safer, since it gives you an 1 1/4" buffer between your tip and the ball, making accidental fouls less likely. And committing a foul while trying to measure out a kick is a painful experience, trust me. I once lost a hill-hill match to David Matlock after calling a foul like that on myself. :( After that I started aiming at a ghost ball, and it hasn't happened since.

Good luck!

Aaron
 

Bob Jewett

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Staff member
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Silver Member
You may be talking about the X system from 3Cushion. Bob could definitely shed more light on this than me.
The system linked to on Mike Fieldhammer's page is the standard corner-5 system so far as I can tell. It has the addition of numbers on the fourth cushion to allow kicks to balls far from the third cushion. Depending on the origin of the cue ball, the fourth-rail numbers must be adjusted. One adjustment is given by the "Seattle Kid's Allowances" which Bob Byrne describes in his "Standard" book. As I recall, it is a quarter diamond of adjustment on the third rail for each unit change of cue ball origin. Or something like that.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
The system linked to on Mike Fieldhammer's page is the standard corner-5 system so far as I can tell. It has the addition of numbers on the fourth cushion to allow kicks to balls far from the third cushion. Depending on the origin of the cue ball, the fourth-rail numbers must be adjusted. One adjustment is given by the "Seattle Kid's Allowances" which Bob Byrne describes in his "Standard" book. As I recall, it is a quarter diamond of adjustment on the third rail for each unit change of cue ball origin. Or something like that.
For people interested, the Corner-5 System is described and demonstrated in the following video:

Adjustments need to be made for angle, speed, spin, and conditions per the information in the video and in the following article:

One can use a system like "Seattle Kid" for the angle-based adjustments or just adjust by "feel" based on an understanding of the effects.

Regards,
Dave
 
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