The game is 9 ball. You are trying to use force follow off of the 1 ball so the cue ball makes the 9. What system or systems do you use the aim to hit the 1 ball? Or do you just use HAMBs( Hit a million balls)?
Using Force Follow
- Thread starter Tennesseejoe
- Start date
The game is 9 ball. You are trying to use force follow off of the 1 ball so the cue ball makes the 9. What system or systems do you use the aim to hit the 1 ball? Or do you just use HAMBs( Hit a million balls)?
HAMB for me.
That’s a tough shot, due to where the 4 is. The right shot direction if the 4 wasn’t there is about halfway between straight on the 1 and straight on the 9.
But that shot angle is going to send the 1 squarely into the 4, then there’s a good chance the 1 just stuns in place and the cueball will hit it a second time.
Because of that, I’d aim the cueball straight at the left side of the 9, so the cue ball will hit the right side rail just before the 9. That angle should get the 1 out of the way better as it will move a little left off the 4. But it adds a new (but smaller) risk of the cueball hitting the 4 after the 4 rebounds off the end rail.
Personally I prefer my win odds of cutting the 1 into the side or back-cutting it into the left corner.
Actually I just found a nice 2-way option that would be my first choice: I’d play the 1-4 combo with some pace into the 9, because the 1 will travel to the left long rail and rebound down close to the end rail, and I can use low right to take the cueball off the right long rail to the middle of the back end rail, so it’s a decent safe if I miss the 9.
That’s a tough shot, due to where the 4 is. The right shot direction if the 4 wasn’t there is about halfway between straight on the 1 and straight on the 9.
But that shot angle is going to send the 1 squarely into the 4, then there’s a good chance the 1 just stuns in place and the cueball will hit it a second time.
Because of that, I’d aim the cueball straight at the left side of the 9, so the cue ball will hit the right side rail just before the 9. That angle should get the 1 out of the way better as it will move a little left off the 4. But it adds a new (but smaller) risk of the cueball hitting the 4 after the 4 rebounds off the end rail.
Personally I prefer my win odds of cutting the 1 into the side or back-cutting it into the left corner.
Actually I just found a nice 2-way option that would be my first choice: I’d play the 1-4 combo with some pace into the 9, because the 1 will travel to the left long rail and rebound down close to the end rail, and I can use low right to take the cueball off the right long rail to the middle of the back end rail, so it’s a decent safe if I miss the 9.
With moderate speed and rolling follow, the CB will carom to the right about 2-3 times the distance that the OB will cut to the left (compared with the CB's path if the OB wasn't there).
However, the 1 will carom off the 4 and might kiss the CB off track.
pj
chgo
However, the 1 will carom off the 4 and might kiss the CB off track.
pj
chgo
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Whether the 1 interferes after hitting the four depends on exactly where the balls are sitting. I think if it is close to being a problem it's going to be very difficult to figure out If it really is. You have little latitude in adjusting the angles with side and the fullness of the hit.
As Pat has analyzed the position, the 1 will move to the right quickly because it hits the 4 about half ball. It may be fast enough to come off the rail and be a problem.
As Pat has analyzed the position, the 1 will move to the right quickly because it hits the 4 about half ball. It may be fast enough to come off the rail and be a problem.
I asked VP4 for a second opinion. Looks like it beats the kiss off the rail.
pj
chgo
Let's be realistic about this. If you're playing in a match, you've got about 30 seconds to decide what to do --- that includes any calculating that you can do on your feet. Most players are going to decide based on memory, which is based on experience. If I were in a match, my concern about the force follow shot is the high possibility of the cb following into the pocket. The possible kiss is also an issue. When you're at the table, you won't be able to check any resources on that either.
My choice would be to do a fast calculation to find the aim spot on the rail to shoot a combination 1-9 rail-first shot. Depending on the aim point on the rail, you may even be able to stick the cb behind the blocking ball, snookering your opponent, just in case. That's a possible great two-way shot.
My choice would be to do a fast calculation to find the aim spot on the rail to shoot a combination 1-9 rail-first shot. Depending on the aim point on the rail, you may even be able to stick the cb behind the blocking ball, snookering your opponent, just in case. That's a possible great two-way shot.
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ChalkySticks doesn't get the size of the balls right unless you are playing on a 5-foot table. Virtual Pool, which is what Pat used, is much, much better for showing shots and as a simulator it gets nearly everything right. It is actually good enough to answer the OP's question.
To draw on someone's diagram, I think the easiest way is to take the image into Paint or similar, draw on it, and post the result as Pat did above in his first pic.
One result of having the balls the right size is shown in the Virtual Pool diagram above. For the positions indicated and the balls the correct size, the one ball can be shot directly at the sitter. That can be fixed to make the OP's question valid by moving the blocker closer to the one ball so that the combo can't even be shot rail-first.
As for nomenclature, I would not call this a force follow. Following five diamonds or so is a pretty standard follow shot and doesn't take much force or any special technique. As Fran pointed out, the scratch is an issue, so you don't want any more follow than necessary, and some precision is needed.
As for nomenclature, I would not call this a force follow. Following five diamonds or so is a pretty standard follow shot and doesn't take much force or any special technique. As Fran pointed out, the scratch is an issue, so you don't want any more follow than necessary, and some precision is needed.
I appreciate all the responses and the added options. My interest was just the aiming of force follow and Patrick Johnson once again nailed it. Thanks so much.
Patrick, I finally had a chance to practice your response in variety of situations...it is unbelievable how easy and accurate it is to calculate in a few seconds. Do you have billiards experience? Thanks again.
No billiards - that's for grownups. Just another thing I learned from Dr. Dave's posts.
pj
chgo
Tough shot. If it's for money or a tournament, I'm not doing any fancy stroke shots here. I'd thin the right side of the 1, softly, sending the cb off the side rail and to the end rail. The 4 will block the 1 and your opponent will have to pull something out of his magic hat to win.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I doubt we can get the CB to the ER and still have the 4 blocking the 1. Need a superhuman thin hit for that imo. TBH I think the follow shot is easier than the safe.
The follow shot is only easier if you have practiced it. A major problem for a lot of players is that they will not hit the ball high enough to have smooth forward roll from the start. Without the ball rolling smoothly on the cloth, the 3:1 follow angle system cannot work. There is some additional explanation in the October column here: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1995.pdf (Lousy diagram, sorry)
Not a difficult shot at all, especially being that close to the 1. A soft speed, thin hit....pretty good (and easy) safety shot, compared to other options. It wouldn't take much speed to move the cb toward the end rail.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
I guess we just seeing it different. Maybe it's just that I am comfortable following a little off angle, esp if I can go rail first and make the target even bigger, but to me that shot is easier than trying to thin the 1ball to move 1inch while having the CB go 5feet.
The other issue is that if you make the carom, you win. If you go into a safety battle you are maybe in a 50-50 situation, like if you leave an edge of the ball out or even a shot at the whole ball. I am reluctant to leave a 9 hanging in the pocket while playing a safe.
Of course if you haven't practiced relatively close follow shots, that's a problem. I've played a lot of carom billiards.
It's a feel shot, no different than hitting/pocketing a ball and drawing ''straight back''.
Your swing must be straight when hitting thru the shot.
To practice this put an object ball close to the pocket with the cue ball a foot or so away straight in.
Pocket the ball and sratch with follow, then back up both balls and do it again, you'll develop a feel for the ''force follow'' which is the exact opposite of draw.
Your swing must be straight when hitting thru the shot.
To practice this put an object ball close to the pocket with the cue ball a foot or so away straight in.
Pocket the ball and sratch with follow, then back up both balls and do it again, you'll develop a feel for the ''force follow'' which is the exact opposite of draw.
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Bob, with the larger/heavier billiard balls, isn't that forward movement a little easier than with a 2 1/4'' cue ball?