this works if you don't use the track lines
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ACfs3HdxE4PRRE3QOuw3SeXv3UCfs3Ubns1UeOE3cdxE3cCWs3cCnr3lOuw3lbVw3lbuv@
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ACfs3HdxE4PRRE3QOuw3SeXv3UCfs3Ubns1UeOE3cdxE3cCWs3cCnr3lOuw3lbVw3lbuv@
Using light reflection for aiming
- Thread starter brilliance
- Start date
Nick B said:
This is the reverse view of the "mirror" banking system (as if you're banking from the pocket to the object ball).
pj
chgo
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Spider,
Don't get all defensive. Just please help me understand because obviously the money my father spent on my education was wasted. No I did not put myself through college playing pool.
1. I got 4 dots. Which one do I use? Simple question? They are about a inch apart on the ball and depending on how I stand.
2. How do I adjust for a ball that is closer or farther from me?
3. From what height should I be looking at this. Note I'm only 5'8" and may need a phone book.
4. Despite the fact I'm obviously dense I am a Elect. Engineer with a degree in Physics. So please show me the math. All your video demonstrates is that you seem to be able to bank "reasonably" well the shots you tried.
Oh by the way the beginners don't need a protractor. They can simply hold their cue like a golf flag at equal distance from the rail and look at the intended pocket. I did it to show the basis on which this tip is structured and like the warning read...for novices and beginners.
Respectively yours,
Nick
Don't get all defensive. Just please help me understand because obviously the money my father spent on my education was wasted. No I did not put myself through college playing pool.
1. I got 4 dots. Which one do I use? Simple question? They are about a inch apart on the ball and depending on how I stand.
2. How do I adjust for a ball that is closer or farther from me?
3. From what height should I be looking at this. Note I'm only 5'8" and may need a phone book.
4. Despite the fact I'm obviously dense I am a Elect. Engineer with a degree in Physics. So please show me the math. All your video demonstrates is that you seem to be able to bank "reasonably" well the shots you tried.
Oh by the way the beginners don't need a protractor. They can simply hold their cue like a golf flag at equal distance from the rail and look at the intended pocket. I did it to show the basis on which this tip is structured and like the warning read...for novices and beginners.
Respectively yours,
Nick
SpiderWebComm said:I never said the system was flawless, I just said it was accurate, which it is.
I so wish I was in that poolroom where you were today so I could strut around like a peacock, bashing banks in w/ the reflection while you were talking to yourself. Just to impress the counter chick, I'd rotate systems....reflections, center-to-edge, Vitello's swivel, and twisting them in head-on with a hard pivot. Maybe I'd get her number.... I'm a good talker. Tell her I say HI
P.S. The diagram is really, really cool. I hope the beginners have a yard stick available to go through the steps to find the point on the rail to hit. Here's a tip for the beginners.... find the line from the corner through the middle diamond...extend that line to a wall, pick a spot and bank towards it. Forget the yardstick, compass and protractor.
Yup...that's why depending on how the table beside your lines up (distance and alignment) you can aim at the adjoining tables pocket and it works. Generally tables seem to be about 4~5' from each other in most halls.
Patrick,
Do you get what Spider is trying to illustrate? I simply don't. Oh on a side note do you remember meeting me at Chris's about five years ago. I was they guy with the full splice cue you liked from Canada. I really enjoyed hitting your cue. I was impressed with it's play.
Nick
Patrick,
Do you get what Spider is trying to illustrate? I simply don't. Oh on a side note do you remember meeting me at Chris's about five years ago. I was they guy with the full splice cue you liked from Canada. I really enjoyed hitting your cue. I was impressed with it's play.
Nick
Patrick Johnson said:
I remember a guy teaching me this within my first month of practicing (previously I played with my friends now and again for little under a year). It took me three months to undo the damage the light system did to my game. Couldn't stop seeing those bloody lights.
FWIW, I was playing pool with the guy who taught me the system some time ago, and there was a power outage at the pool room. So we proped up some flashlights to light up the table somewhat (there were no windows). Without the dots, he couldn't pocket a ball.
FWIW, I was playing pool with the guy who taught me the system some time ago, and there was a power outage at the pool room. So we proped up some flashlights to light up the table somewhat (there were no windows). Without the dots, he couldn't pocket a ball.
Not sure how knowing a system can ruin your game... hmmm.....strange.... anyways...
1. I got 4 dots. Which one do I use? Simple question? They are about a inch apart on the ball and depending on how I stand.
This doesn't make sense... the ball's only 2.25" so they can't be an inch apart. Incandescent lights are more difficult to use than fluorescent lights because your "shape" isn't obvious. With fluorescent lights your shape is a bar (i.e. ------------ going across the ball at a slight angle).
I think this is really hard to teach on a forum. You have to be standing at the ball. If you can post an image that shows how the reflection looks across the ball, I'll annotate it to show you the shape-- which you need to pocket the ball. You don't use any of the light bulb reflections... you need to determine the midpoint and edge of the entire reflection (all bulbs).
2. How do I adjust for a ball that is closer or farther from me?
No adjustment... just harder to be accurate in sighting. There must be english adjustments...all outside english... to ensure you're not spinning the OB the wrong way with impact-spin. As I mentioned before, each of the "dots" you're connecting are somewhere other than the center of the respective ball. Therefore, when people miss, it's typically because they're shooting as if the dots were the center...hope that makes sense.
The secret of this system is to physically "walk" around the shot...walk from one side to the other until the edge of the CB reflection is directly "below" the center of the OB reflection. From that point, come into the shot and push the CB dot "forward." Use slight outside english (1/2 or so).
3. From what height should I be looking at this. Note I'm only 5'8" and may need a phone book.
Doesn't matter.
4. Despite the fact I'm obviously dense I am a Elect. Engineer with a degree in Physics. So please show me the math. All your video demonstrates is that you seem to be able to bank "reasonably" well the shots you tried.
I promise you I did a LOT better in the first video, but no audio recording (I had windows movie set to stereo mix instead of microphone for audio.... I didn't care the 2nd time around). I know you're a smart guy. I wish I could show you the math-- but the math is beyond me and I'm strong at math. It's not geometry - guessing it's a combination of trig and calc.
I don't get defensive. I didn't like the alien/tin foil comment because you're implying my info is not only bad info-- but joke info--- which I didn't like. I'm smarter than your average bear with pool and I'm the biggest cynic on earth with "systems" and such. I've never posted bad info ever on here ever. If you can't do it... you need a face to face lesson with someone knowledgeable with how this stuff works...instead of making snide comments with aliens and tin foil.
If my camera in my basement picked up reflections on balls, I'd do a live internet session and show you. With zero effort, no practice strokes...bad as you can get... the worst I'll ever do with that system is banking 50%. If I fine tune, take my time, practice stroke....about 70%.
I never, ever pumped this system up to be the end-all mac-daddy system. I mentioned 1000x there are much better ways to bank. I just wanted to say it was accurate and "not bad"---average, if you would. Better than using guess work and intuition if your bank game isn't honed-in. That's all I was saying.
Dave
1. I got 4 dots. Which one do I use? Simple question? They are about a inch apart on the ball and depending on how I stand.
This doesn't make sense... the ball's only 2.25" so they can't be an inch apart. Incandescent lights are more difficult to use than fluorescent lights because your "shape" isn't obvious. With fluorescent lights your shape is a bar (i.e. ------------ going across the ball at a slight angle).
I think this is really hard to teach on a forum. You have to be standing at the ball. If you can post an image that shows how the reflection looks across the ball, I'll annotate it to show you the shape-- which you need to pocket the ball. You don't use any of the light bulb reflections... you need to determine the midpoint and edge of the entire reflection (all bulbs).
2. How do I adjust for a ball that is closer or farther from me?
No adjustment... just harder to be accurate in sighting. There must be english adjustments...all outside english... to ensure you're not spinning the OB the wrong way with impact-spin. As I mentioned before, each of the "dots" you're connecting are somewhere other than the center of the respective ball. Therefore, when people miss, it's typically because they're shooting as if the dots were the center...hope that makes sense.
The secret of this system is to physically "walk" around the shot...walk from one side to the other until the edge of the CB reflection is directly "below" the center of the OB reflection. From that point, come into the shot and push the CB dot "forward." Use slight outside english (1/2 or so).
3. From what height should I be looking at this. Note I'm only 5'8" and may need a phone book.
Doesn't matter.
4. Despite the fact I'm obviously dense I am a Elect. Engineer with a degree in Physics. So please show me the math. All your video demonstrates is that you seem to be able to bank "reasonably" well the shots you tried.
I promise you I did a LOT better in the first video, but no audio recording (I had windows movie set to stereo mix instead of microphone for audio.... I didn't care the 2nd time around). I know you're a smart guy. I wish I could show you the math-- but the math is beyond me and I'm strong at math. It's not geometry - guessing it's a combination of trig and calc.
I don't get defensive. I didn't like the alien/tin foil comment because you're implying my info is not only bad info-- but joke info--- which I didn't like. I'm smarter than your average bear with pool and I'm the biggest cynic on earth with "systems" and such. I've never posted bad info ever on here ever. If you can't do it... you need a face to face lesson with someone knowledgeable with how this stuff works...instead of making snide comments with aliens and tin foil.
If my camera in my basement picked up reflections on balls, I'd do a live internet session and show you. With zero effort, no practice strokes...bad as you can get... the worst I'll ever do with that system is banking 50%. If I fine tune, take my time, practice stroke....about 70%.
I never, ever pumped this system up to be the end-all mac-daddy system. I mentioned 1000x there are much better ways to bank. I just wanted to say it was accurate and "not bad"---average, if you would. Better than using guess work and intuition if your bank game isn't honed-in. That's all I was saying.
Dave
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Nick B said:
That would mean the reflection wraps around the entire ball. Doesn't seem right. Can you use the Paint program in windows to draw a circle and draw where the bulb reflections are and embed it in a post? Even if it's approx, I'll show you how to align yourself.
eezbank said:
As a tool to gain feel for the bank...this is the system I like the most because everything is within the confines of the table.....I refer to it as the "mini mirror" since it is basically a small version of the full blow mirror system...
I never could get used to the full mirror and having to find referene points off in the distance or off table.
NOTE: My personal slant on this is that (for me) it seems to work better if my lines going to the side pockets are going to the outside "faceing" of the side pockets instead of the center......It may verywell be that I tend to hit banks a bit firm and shorten the angle......but all I know is that I tend to make more banks by imagining the lines going to the outer face of the side pocket.
I've never found a one-rail system that's more simple, straightforward and accurate than just finding the "2-to-1" ratio on opposite rails:
All you do is pivot your stick over the object ball until the distance from the target side pocket (on the bottom rail) is twice as much as the distance from the opposite side pocket (on the top rail). In this case it's 2-1/4 diamonds on the bottom rail vs. 1-1/8 diamonds on the top rail.
Quick, easy, no math or geometry (unless you consider 2:1 "math") - just use the diamonds to measure the distances.
pj
chgo
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Patrick Johnson said:
I use that a lot as a base. Good method.
SpiderWebComm said:
Thinking of it as a "base" is a good idea, because the ball doesn't rebound perfectly in many cases.
One reason is that there may be sidespin on the OB, either from spinning the CB for shape or from cutting the OB without "neutralizing" CB sidespin.
If there's no OB sidespin, then little or no adjustment is needed when the angle is pretty steep (say, within 1 diamond or so on the top rail vs. 2 diamonds or so on the bottom rail).
But when the angle is wider than that, then rail friction will shorten the angle and/or OB roll will widen the angle, so these things must be taken into account and the angle adjusted for them - how much adjustment and what kind is learned by trial and error.
pj
chgo
(By the way, I know you know these things; I'm just putting them out there for general consumption.)
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Nick B said:Dave,
check this photo from the cover of AZ...How many lights do you see and I would say they are at least 3/4" apart.
Nick
I gotcha. Well, we didn't even cover Diamond / Kim Steel "gridded" lights.
Use this as a guide... no matter what the reflection looks like. Row of bulbs look like a series of dots, fluorescent lights look like a bar, diamond lights look like this picture. You must be able to "see" the extremities and determine the midpoint in order for this to work. Determining the midpoint of a pentagram or small square is tough. That's why fluorescent lights are the best (such as my table) because I can "easily" see the mid-point of a bar. On the table Thorsten is shooting on, it'll work... but you better have GOOD vision and deliver the CB ACCURATELY.
Dave
P.S. Walking around the shot is crucial. I walk around the shot until the CB edge reflection is 180 degrees (directly below) the OB center direction. All I do is "connect the dots."
If it doesn't work, I apologize... not sure how else to convey this.
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enzo said:
If you move the light a tad, the reflection moves identically on each ball... nothing changes.
Yes, that's the way I do it too. But it's important not to shift exactly parallel - the amount you shift the tip of the cue (at the opposite rail) must be 1/2 the amount you shift the butt (at the bottom rail).
Here's the same shot, but moved over a little to make this more visible:
The red line is the "track line" from the 2nd diamond on the near rail to the 1st diamond on the far rail. Shifting "parallel" to that track line actually means shifting the tip of the cue 1/4 diamond to the left (to 1-1/4 diamond) and the butt of the cue 1/2 diamond to the left (to 2-1/2 diamonds). If you actually shifted the cue parallel with the track line, you'd be aiming from 2-1/2 diamonds to 1-1/2 diamonds, and you'd miss the bank by a half diamond.
[NOTE: These measurements are taken at the "gutter" (where a rail-frozen ball touches the table surface), not at the diamonds themselves.]
pj
chgo
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