Using TOI to Aim at Contact Points

[CJ Wiley]

TOI, the result be the object ball "popping" in the center of the pocket.

i have purchased all of your videos and i am interested in how your ultimate aiming system ties in with toi?? i have experimented with it since i read this post and i real eyes that i was doing this subconsciously on shots up to half ball shots.. hmmm

maybe another video on using them combined in the future???

i do find that when i am playing tired, which is most of the time because of my day job, i seem to rely on TOI the most because my brain is tired and I am able to focus better at that point... I always start out a session or match with the full range of the cueball in mind but i always seem to gravitate back to toi... interesting... I really must have a thick skull... lol

I use the Ultimate Aiming System to align to the inside of the pocket, then use TOI to calibrate the shot to center (pocket).

Shot-making ends up being more about feel than vision....you do have to create a consistent relative point, and I recommend Center/Center or Center/Edge between cue ball and object ball...this gives your subconscious enough information to figure out the angle...then CREATE the angle and accelerate using TOI, the result be the object ball "popping" in the center of the pocket.

 

[JayCall]

I use the Ultimate Aiming System to align to the inside of the pocket, then use TOI to calibrate the shot to center (pocket).

Shot-making ends up being more about feel than vision....you do have to create a consistent relative point, and I recommend Center/Center or Center/Edge between cue ball and object ball...this gives your subconscious enough information to figure out the angle...then CREATE the angle and accelerate using TOI, the result be the object ball "popping" in the center of the pocket.

I got that part down pretty much--- but i am interested in what you said about aiming at the contact point with the shaft or tip- because i find myself doing just that sometimes-- usually up to a half ball hit, after that i seem to be using the edge of the shaft to aim it the contact point then. guess i am just trying to turn toi into less of a feel system for myself...

just wondering what you meant by the first post-- or just trying to understand it better i guess..

 

[West Point 1987]

I've always aimed at the contact point on the OB...my eyes/subconscious would do whatever was needed to deliver the CB to the contact point. I would align and stare straight at the contact point, and observe the hit to see if I got it. When I started using TOI, everything re-calibrated, so my new center CB is a smidge to the inside. All the aiming thick to squirt thin isn't necessary for me anymore. I still bore a hole in the contact point. The biggest ah-ha moment for me came with the initial alignment CTE or CTC. When CJ suggested it, it really didn't look at all right at first. But once I tried it it made everything so much easier. At first it didn't look right, but the CB found the contact point just fine. Now it's so easy it's cheating. The trick is to know the difference when you move from CTE to CTC or vice/versa. There's a little gray area between the two. Sometimes when the CB is too close to the OB for a CTE to work, you have to adjust the alignment a little like a quarter ball hit, to get that razor thin cut to go.

Another thing I notice while messing around...it's absolutely shocking how many different ways you can hit a non-straight shot, without seeming to move your hands at all. I can't explain it, but I paid attention, while pausing with the tip at the CB. I visualized hitting several different contact points on the OB and could "real eyes" that I could deliver the CB to any one of them with no real shift. I don't know how, but trust me...it was almost Zen. I'm sure it has to do with the hips and/or the shoulders, but it's helpful to realize that there is a lot of perception at work here, too. Next time your down on a shot, pause with the tip right at the CB and visualize hitting it perfect, hitting too thin and hitting too thick. You'll see that all three are possible without any change in where you're hitting the CB...or at least that's the perception. You can use this to zero in on the correct contact point/address.

 

[JayCall]

I've always aimed at the contact point on the OB...my eyes/subconscious would do whatever was needed to deliver the CB to the contact point. I would align and stare straight at the contact point, and observe the hit to see if I got it. When I started using TOI, everything re-calibrated, so my new center CB is a smidge to the inside. All the aiming thick to squirt thin isn't necessary for me anymore. I still bore a hole in the contact point. The biggest ah-ha moment for me came with the initial alignment CTE or CTC. When CJ suggested it, it really didn't look at all right at first. But once I tried it it made everything so much easier. At first it didn't look right, but the CB found the contact point just fine. Now it's so easy it's cheating. The trick is to know the difference when you move from CTE to CTC or vice/versa. There's a little gray area between the two. Sometimes when the CB is too close to the OB for a CTE to work, you have to adjust the alignment a little like a quarter ball hit, to get that razor thin cut to go.

Another thing I notice while messing around...it's absolutely shocking how many different ways you can hit a non-straight shot, without seeming to move your hands at all. I can't explain it, but I paid attention, while pausing with the tip at the CB. I visualized hitting several different contact points on the OB and could "real eyes" that I could deliver the CB to any one of them with no real shift. I don't know how, but trust me...it was almost Zen. I'm sure it has to do with the hips and/or the shoulders, but it's helpful to realize that there is a lot of perception at work here, too. Next time your down on a shot, pause with the tip right at the CB and visualize hitting it perfect, hitting too thin and hitting too thick. You'll see that all three are possible without any change in where you're hitting the CB...or at least that's the perception. You can use this to zero in on the correct contact point/address.

nice insight... kentucky windage in action i guess... lol

 

[Mitchxout]

I've always aimed at the contact point on the OB...my eyes/subconscious would do whatever was needed to deliver the CB to the contact point. I would align and stare straight at the contact point, and observe the hit to see if I got it. When I started using TOI, everything re-calibrated, so my new center CB is a smidge to the inside. All the aiming thick to squirt thin isn't necessary for me anymore. I still bore a hole in the contact point. The biggest ah-ha moment for me came with the initial alignment CTE or CTC. When CJ suggested it, it really didn't look at all right at first. But once I tried it it made everything so much easier. At first it didn't look right, but the CB found the contact point just fine. Now it's so easy it's cheating. The trick is to know the difference when you move from CTE to CTC or vice/versa. There's a little gray area between the two. Sometimes when the CB is too close to the OB for a CTE to work, you have to adjust the alignment a little like a quarter ball hit, to get that razor thin cut to go.

Another thing I notice while messing around...it's absolutely shocking how many different ways you can hit a non-straight shot, without seeming to move your hands at all. I can't explain it, but I paid attention, while pausing with the tip at the CB. I visualized hitting several different contact points on the OB and could "real eyes" that I could deliver the CB to any one of them with no real shift. I don't know how, but trust me...it was almost Zen. I'm sure it has to do with the hips and/or the shoulders, but it's helpful to realize that there is a lot of perception at work here, too. Next time your down on a shot, pause with the tip right at the CB and visualize hitting it perfect, hitting too thin and hitting too thick. You'll see that all three are possible without any change in where you're hitting the CB...or at least that's the perception. You can use this to zero in on the correct contact point/address.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your method. I always trust my back arm to make the shot on its own.

 

[CJ Wiley]

3 straight hours to begin re-programming your mind.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your method. I always trust my back arm to make the shot on its own.

Yes, the problem with teaching players how to "aim," is it's processed in the sub-conscious, so it doesn't really make sense how easy it actually is.

One thing that has to happen is the player must develop a reliable stroke FIRST....so they can hit the cue ball accurately, and precisely. Only then can you start teaching the player TOI so they can connect what's happening on the table to how the process it internally.

Without someone like myself to oversee someone's development it's suggested to use TOI for 3 straight hours to begin re-programming your mind. You must be willing to give up your old ideas, attitudes and beliefs about "aiming" before this new process can be born.....or re-born in a new, more effective way.

 

[Mitchxout]

I don't like to see the cue rotating because the tip reflects what your hand is doing. My suggestion is to pay attention to the area (V) between your thumb and forefinger on your back hand. Make sure the part of that "V" on top of your cue is moving straight through the cue ball/tip relationship like a surgeon's scalpel....

....what's important is it's precise, and doesn't twist one way or the other (creating a situation where your tip is rotating as you mentioned in your post).

You can tell a lot from how a player's tip moves through the cue ball.....more than many people "real eyes," and that's one of the keys I focus on when evaluating a players true playing level.

Thanks CJ, that helps a lot. Also, firming up my grip helped take some "slack" out.

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's like holding a pen to feel the point

Thanks CJ, that helps a lot. Also, firming up my grip helped take some "slack" out.

The grip should connect you to the tip as much as possible, firm and controlled, not necessarily tight (sounds like you are on the right track).....it's like holding a pen to feel the point....or a fork to feel the food.....it's all about sensitivity, and also the ability to accelerate through the cue ball quickly with a limited follow-through (for most shots).

 

[Mitchxout]

The grip should connect you to the tip as much as possible, firm and controlled, not necessarily tight (sounds like you are on the right track).....it's like holding a pen to feel the point....or a fork to feel the food.....it's all about sensitivity, and also the ability to accelerate through the cue ball quickly with a limited follow-through (for most shots).

I can't thank you enough for all the help you've given us. I've stopped twisting the cue, firmed up my grip, more compact and accelerating stroke. It's like you're here showing me. Scary...lol

 

[JayCall]

Just ran two racks of 15 ball rotation out of 5 using toi... really starting to get the feel. its really sick how easy it is..

I just have to be able to trust myself in competition using it and not revert back ..

Still having issues on side pocket shots- like i am not able to judge whether its a center to center or center to edge...

ALso having trouble judging thin shots that require one tip-two tips-- like i am not able to see the contact point you are talking about on the first post...


trying my best to stay within 20 - 50 or so degrees so that doesnt come up too often but it is my trouble area.. almost feels like outside is a better choice on some of those shots.

 

[JayCall]

CJ- another question...

Yes, the problem with teaching players how to "aim," is it's processed in the sub-conscious, so it doesn't really make sense how easy it actually is.

One thing that has to happen is the player must develop a reliable stroke FIRST....so they can hit the cue ball accurately, and precisely. Only then can you start teaching the player TOI so they can connect what's happening on the table to how the process it internally.

Without someone like myself to oversee someone's development it's suggested to use TOI for 3 straight hours to begin re-programming your mind. You must be willing to give up your old ideas, attitudes and beliefs about "aiming" before this new process can be born.....or re-born in a new, more effective way.

i watched the 2006 us open match that you played against strickland*destroyed him*(which is a great case study match for TOI) -- and there are a few shots that you use outside on--- what is the criteria for that? the eight ball on the first rack- it looks to me like you applied outside spin on the final stroke.. also the nine in the third or fourth game was slight outside- please correct me if i am wrong

when is it ok to use another technique and not feel wrong..?

i dont know if that makes any sense - i am a bit haggard from working this week...

 

[Mitchxout]

when is it ok to use another technique and not feel wrong..?

I can tell you it's never wrong if it works for you. Everyone develops their own version of TOI that works best for them.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

i watched the 2006 us open match that you played against strickland*destroyed him*(which is a great case study match for TOI) -- and there are a few shots that you use outside on--- what is the criteria for that? the eight ball on the first rack- it looks to me like you applied outside spin on the final stroke.. also the nine in the third or fourth game was slight outside- please correct me if i am wrong

when is it ok to use another technique and not feel wrong..?

i dont know if that makes any sense - i am a bit haggard from working this week...

Excellent questions. Maybe that can be an addition to the next dvd, CJ does a commentary over his matches, where he walks us through his thought process and shot selection. That would be extremely helpful.

 

[JayCall]

Excellent questions. Maybe that can be an addition to the next dvd, CJ does a commentary over his matches, where he walks us through his thought process and shot selection. That would be extremely helpful.

YES!!!!! that would be awesome.. and helpful of course.


I feel like i am on the verge of something huge here...

I am not a slouch on the table but there has always been something missing - a consistency that i have never been able to achieve--- especially when im playing against the guys i know i should beat EVERY time- whether i am giving them a spot or not..

 

[JayCall]

I can tell you it's never wrong if it works for you. Everyone develops their own version of TOI that works best for them.

*thumbs up*

Yeah but then it all seems to snow ball back to using outside the majority--- maybe a guideline would help...

i dont know..

maybe im being a little too analytical here....

 

[JayCall]

CJ--- Any comments? Would like to get your take on this...

i watched the 2006 us open match that you played against strickland*destroyed him*(which is a great case study match for TOI) -- and there are a few shots that you use outside on--- what is the criteria for that? the eight ball on the first rack- it looks to me like you applied outside spin on the final stroke.. also the nine in the third or fourth game was slight outside- please correct me if i am wrong

when is it ok to use another technique and not feel wrong..?

i dont know if that makes any sense - i am a bit haggard from working this week...

I really wish that I lived closer to you- i would like a person to person take on it...

Gonna be in southern ca anytime soon???

 

[CJ Wiley]

"perfect practice that makes perfect".....not just practice.

I really wish that I lived closer to you- i would like a person to person take on it...

Gonna be in southern ca anytime soon???

Personal training means a lot because I can quickly identify any stroking or cue-ball targeting errors that you may be making......these can be a constant "thorn in your side" because no matter what you do the cue ball will be slightly off the ideal "shot line".

I have come up with some very effective drills to fine-tune all aspects of TOI, Caroms, Banking and Advanced Creative Shot-Making/Position Play.

Once you have this experience the game will look totally different and shots that used to be hidden will appear. It does take practice, however it's "perfect practice that makes perfect".....not just practice.

Sorry, no plans to visit S. Cali. - the closest I will be is Vegas in a few weeks.

 

[JayCall]

Personal training means a lot because I can quickly identify any stroking or cue-ball targeting errors that you may be making......these can be a constant "thorn in your side" because no matter what you do the cue ball will be slightly off the ideal "shot line".

I have come up with some very effective drills to fine-tune all aspects of TOI, Caroms, Banking and Advanced Creative Shot-Making/Position Play.

Once you have this experience the game will look totally different and shots that used to be hidden will appear. It does take practice, however it's "perfect practice that makes perfect".....not just practice.

Sorry, no plans to visit S. Cali. - the closest I will be is Vegas in a few weeks.

hmmm i will be in vegas very soon... pm coming...

 

[CJ Wiley]

to do many things "just ok" and still do well playing in tournaments.

That was the first tournament I had played in 8 years...I was playing pretty well, however this was on tournament conditions (new cloth) which sometimes is tricky. It's possible to do many things "just ok" and still do well playing in tournaments.....this isn't the case gambling.

i watched the 2006 us open match that you played against strickland*destroyed him*(which is a great case study match for TOI) -- and there are a few shots that you use outside on--- what is the criteria for that? the eight ball on the first rack- it looks to me like you applied outside spin on the final stroke.. also the nine in the third or fourth game was slight outside- please correct me if i am wrong

when is it ok to use another technique and not feel wrong..?

i dont know if that makes any sense - i am a bit haggard from working this week...

 

[CJ Wiley]

Sometimes it can be illusionary to watch if a player pivots his tip quickly.

That's right, no matter if you're talking golf, tennis, or pocket billiards the best players will always look like they have different styles (even if they get similar results). What the "seasoned eye" will see are the similarities, not the differences.

I look from the feet/up to rate what a players true potential is. If they aren't aligning to the shot the same every time relative to their foundation (feet) they have very little chance of playing the same way day after day, hour after hour.

This same scenario exists with the player's alignment to the cue ball with the tip. If they don't have a consistent reference point it's doubtful if they could be a world class player. Sometimes it can be illusionary to watch if a player pivots his tip quickly.

Darren A. does this extremely well AND consistently accurate - it appears he uses center, then quickly moves a "touch" off center to apply what movement he's planning to the cue ball.....I haven't studied his game, although it does appear he uses the "no spin" approach and rarely hits a poorly executed shot.

\

I can tell you it's never wrong if it works for you. Everyone develops their own version of TOI that works best for them.