Utilizing peripheral vision during the final stroke

Oikawa

Oikawa

Well-known member
There's the classic debate of whether you should you look at CB or OB last, when pulling the trigger. On top of that, some people who look at the OB last stare at their desired contact point, while some just generally look at the OB as a whole.

I have found that, for me, I get the best results by looking at the OB, but also "focusing" my peripheral vision to look at the cue stick at the same time. This way my visual focus is a combined view of the OB (stationary). and the moving cue stick. I find that this helps me deliver a straighter stroke with less effort.

Without knowing for certain why this helps me, I'd guess that the brain perhaps gets more accurate information to work with when you have a more holistic view of the situation, instead of just fixating on a single part of it?

When I say focusing on the peripheral vision, I'm not sure what the correct term for this is. I don't mean looking back and forth moving my eyes, I mean keeping your eyes pointed at the OB, but shifting your conscious focus from what you are looking at, to your peripheral vision, into a very specific part (or multiple parts) of it, in this case, the cue stick. Perhaps someone more verbally knowledged than me can say what term best describes this action.

Another thing to consider is that I have my chin on the cue, so that way the OB and cue stick are much closer to each other in your field of view, compared to if you have your head higher up. I also pause for 1-2 seconds at the back, keeping everything still and letting my vision focus properly before pulling the trigger.

Also, I look at the whole OB, not the contact point, but this doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread.

What do you all look at last? Do you utilize your peripheral vision consciously in any way?
 
garczar said:
No offense but do you ever just go play? You'll figure all this stuff without asking these long questions. WTF would anyone need pv in your follow-thru??? Most people that say they look at CB last really don't. I've watched a LOT of pool/snooker in slow motion and rarely does anyone look at the CB when pulling the trigger. I go back-n-forth but its OB last when i shoot. Every time. Just go play. This stuff is intuitive and becomes automatic just by DOING IT. I really hope this isn't justnum's twin/clone.
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Not sure what is causing the negative attitude? I am focusing on one part of the shot process, found something that works for me, shared it, explained why I think it helps me, and asked if others have any opinions about this or similar things. Obviously things become intuitive and you can practice without thinking about stuff, but that doesn't mean that there's no value in conscious effort.

Do you believe that the best way to learn pool is to HAMB with your brain turned off from the start, not trying to understand why things work at all?

And yes, I practice daily, and a large part of that is just drilling in typical and important shots, there is no alternative. But I find that my game improves faster by questioning things and breaking them down, instead of just mindlessly shooting shots and not putting any thought in.

Also, how is my original question long at all? Takes 30 seconds to read. And if you aren't interested in this specific topic, you can simply not read it. I personally much prefer reading thought out posts instead of oversimplified ones.
 
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Oikawa said:
There's the classic debate of whether you should you look at CB or OB last, when pulling the trigger. On top of that, some people who look at the OB last stare at their desired contact point, while some just generally look at the OB as a whole.

I have found that, for me, I get the best results by looking at the OB, but also "focusing" my peripheral vision to look at the cue stick at the same time. This way my visual focus is a combined view of the OB (stationary). and the moving cue stick. I find that this helps me deliver a straighter stroke with less effort.

Without knowing for certain why this helps me, I'd guess that the brain perhaps gets more accurate information to work with when you have a more holistic view of the situation, instead of just fixating on a single part of it?

When I say focusing on the peripheral vision, I'm not sure what the correct term for this is. I don't mean looking back and forth moving my eyes, I mean keeping your eyes pointed at the OB, but shifting your conscious focus from what you are looking at, to your peripheral vision, into a very specific part (or multiple parts) of it, in this case, the cue stick. Perhaps someone more verbally knowledged than me can say what term best describes this action.

Another thing to consider is that I have my chin on the cue, so that way the OB and cue stick are much closer to each other in your field of view, compared to if you have your head higher up. I also pause for 1-2 seconds at the back, keeping everything still and letting my vision focus properly before pulling the trigger.

Also, I look at the whole OB, not the contact point, but this doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread.

What do you all look at last? Do you utilize your peripheral vision consciously in any way?
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Seems backwards to me. The cue ball seems to me to be the only real target I can control. I get the pv part, but only to the point of being aware of making a straight stoke, but it seems the main focus should be hitting the cue ball correctly.
 
Renegade_56 said:
Seems backwards to me. The cue ball seems to me to be the only real target I can control. I get the pv part, but only to the point of being aware of making a straight stoke, but it seems the main focus should be hitting the cue ball correctly.
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I understand where you're coming from.

My idea for not focusing on the CB on delivery at all, is that by the time the backhand is paused and I'm ready to pull the trigger, the cue ideally just has to make a straight motion forward, whatever direction it's pointing at, so the ideal CB contact happens as long as I stroke straight, even if I ignore the CB during the stroke.

This works best for me, for reasons I don't fully understand.

I try to simplify my shot process as much as possible, to make it as effortless and consistent as possible for my subconscious to execute all the steps. I find that contact point focus requires constantly staring at a single point, which is hard to do for me, and I also feel like it limits my subconscious from making necessary adjustments, since I probably don't know the required contact point as well as my subconscious does.
 
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garczar said:
No offense but do you ever just go play? You'll figure all this stuff without asking these long questions. WTF would anyone need pv in your follow-thru??? Most people that say they look at CB last really don't. I've watched a LOT of pool/snooker in slow motion and rarely does anyone look at the CB when pulling the trigger. I go back-n-forth but its OB last when i shoot. Every time. Just go play. This stuff is intuitive and becomes automatic just by DOING IT. I really hope this isn't justnum's twin/clone.
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Ok.

I am not going to argue with you. I won’t be reading your response to this. But you do realize that you are shaming someone for wanting to learn, don’t you? This type of attitude is why this forum is crumbling. Unfortunately AZB is one of the only places we can come to access some excellent minds in this game, but I know of no other sport community that eats their own young. It is 2023, and there is no place for old boys club bullying of legitimate questions. You’re not impressing anyone but yourself and your sad lonely pea sized ego.
 
Oikawa said:
I understand where you're coming from.

My idea for not focusing on the CB on delivery at all, is that by the time the backhand is paused and I'm ready to pull the trigger, the cue ideally just has to make a straight motion forward, whatever direction it's pointing at, so the ideal CB contact happens as long as I stroke straight, even if I ignore the CB during the stroke.

This works best for me, for reasons I don't fully understand.

I try to simplify my shot process as much as possible, to make it as effortless and consistent as possible for my subconscious to execute all the steps. I find that contact point focus requires constantly staring at a single point, which is hard to do for me, and I also feel like it limits my subconscious from making necessary adjustments, since I probably don't know the required contact point as well as my subconscious does.
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Depends I think how you prioritize control of the shot. Most tend to prioritize potting and almost certainly would be "object ball last - ers". The CB last-ers likely consider potting less of a concern than cue ball control and focus on the white ball.
 
Oikawa said:
I understand where you're coming from.

My idea for not focusing on the CB on delivery at all, is that by the time the backhand is paused and I'm ready to pull the trigger, the cue ideally just has to make a straight motion forward, whatever direction it's pointing at, so the ideal CB contact happens as long as I stroke straight, even if I ignore the CB during the stroke.

This works best for me, for reasons I don't fully understand.

I try to simplify my shot process as much as possible, to make it as effortless and consistent as possible for my subconscious to execute all the steps. I find that contact point focus requires constantly staring at a single point, which is hard to do for me, and I also feel like it limits my subconscious from making necessary adjustments, since I probably don't know the required contact point as well as my subconscious does.
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yeah I get it, I never worry about contact point either.
 
straightline said:
Depends I think how you prioritize control of the shot. Most tend to prioritize potting and almost certainly would be "object ball last - ers". The CB last-ers likely consider potting less of a concern than cue ball control and focus on the white ball.
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This is a good point. There are exceptions where I deliberately look at CB last, when I know that getting the right hit is more difficult than normal, such as jump shots, masse shots or super short strokes when I have to avoid a double hit.

One reason that I believe it's best to not look at CB for too long is that, when looking at the OB, you very easily notice in your field of vision if you accidentally move, even a little bit, since the perception of the ball overlap changes. But looking at the CB, you don't neccessarily notice tiny movements that take you off the shot line.
 
hey, watch stephen hendry in his prime-
you tube video from the 90’s

his shot making changed the sport

what i took from doing that
is to keep my focus on the tip of the stick
and keep it as absolutely still as possible

not the object ball, not the cue ball
the last thing i look at is the still cue tip

i call it
fuzzy vanishing
because the ball is not in focus
when it falls in the pocket it’s fuzzy
i see it go away but my eyes are
still focused on the tip so the ob is blurry

in a recent video he posted on his
you tube page he said that both he
and r. o’sullivan look at the cue ball last
 
ever heard of 'feel vs. real'?? common phrase in golf used to describe what a player actually does vs. what he/she feels. pool/snooker is same thing. VERY FEW players actually look t the CB when they pull the trigger. I've watched a LOT of snooker/pool and when they have a good straight on camera angle its clear that they look at OB last. Slow it down and watch it. BTW, ego is not part of why i post. ego is for those who think their little toys make you play better. that's ego. i post opinions, don't like it put me on ignore. i think the OP obsesses over miniscule details that become readily apparent if you get on the table and just play. this game is about 10% science and 90% art/feel. snooker players are the straightest shooters on the planet, think ANY of them have ever used some electronic strap-on to tell them why they missed???? Please.
 
As part of my PSR I use peripheral vision to feel the shot as close as I can. I aim to the center of the pocket, then aim to the right of the pocket, then aim to the left of the pocket, then back to the center. If needed, I repeat the process on difficult shots to refine the accuracy. Then I complete the process by aiming/concentrating at a spot on the cue ball.
You may want to try this on straight in shots to see how it works for you.
 
The Big I is just as important as what I do with my eyes. First I must Imagine.
Mark Williams has demonstrated incredible shots while looking away completely. Eyes closed is a practice method I occasionally employ. It can either validate my mechanics or expose flaws that I was overlooking.
Sometimes older is wiser. Sometimes older is just Grumpier.
 
When I pull the trigger all I’m focused on is the contact point on the OB, not the whole ball, the contact point. I call that the difference between looking at the ball and actually “playing” the ball. After I’m set my vision has nothing to do with my stroke and if I were to try to focus on more than one thing I’d be totally distracted
 
Oikawa said:
There's the classic debate of whether you should you look at CB or OB last, when pulling the trigger. On top of that, some people who look at the OB last stare at their desired contact point, while some just generally look at the OB as a whole.

I have found that, for me, I get the best results by looking at the OB, but also "focusing" my peripheral vision to look at the cue stick at the same time. This way my visual focus is a combined view of the OB (stationary). and the moving cue stick. I find that this helps me deliver a straighter stroke with less effort.

Without knowing for certain why this helps me, I'd guess that the brain perhaps gets more accurate information to work with when you have a more holistic view of the situation, instead of just fixating on a single part of it?

When I say focusing on the peripheral vision, I'm not sure what the correct term for this is. I don't mean looking back and forth moving my eyes, I mean keeping your eyes pointed at the OB, but shifting your conscious focus from what you are looking at, to your peripheral vision, into a very specific part (or multiple parts) of it, in this case, the cue stick. Perhaps someone more verbally knowledged than me can say what term best describes this action.

Another thing to consider is that I have my chin on the cue, so that way the OB and cue stick are much closer to each other in your field of view, compared to if you have your head higher up. I also pause for 1-2 seconds at the back, keeping everything still and letting my vision focus properly before pulling the trigger.

Also, I look at the whole OB, not the contact point, but this doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread.

What do you all look at last? Do you utilize your peripheral vision consciously in any way?
Click to expand...
Absolutely!! Like a final unconscious check B4 commit.
 
I when I first started to play regularly, I did notice and pay attention to the cue stick in my peripheral vision. I think it gives you additional information about the direction of your stroke.
 
As for which ball during the stroke, I think the eyes should be in sharp focus on the object ball before the cue stick starts to come forward.

"Quiet eye" studies show that the focus should last at least half a second or so before the action.

I think advising beginners to focus on the cue ball last will slow their progress. They need to see clearly where the cue ball is going. There are a few shots that are exceptions such as elevated and maybe break shots.
 
Tooler said:
Would you fire a gun or shoot an arrow while focusing on something other that the target spot……
Answer: only if you want to miss.
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The bow and especially the gun are mechanically far more stable. The actions of the projectiles in those systems are more or less given. Not so in pool. The cue ball as a projectile is 100% prone to some degree of misfire with a significant portion of that, catastrophic. Cue ball last makes good sense.
 
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