uv? not again

2

2backunderme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
can someone who finishes with uv talk me into trying it again.lol. hate to let my curing booth go to waste. i wont say what brand i was using until later, so as to not influence responses. yeh, yeh, its easy, 1 1/2 hr start to finish, i had the finish crack badly on a couple of cues. i could make it look good, but not quite as good as auto clear or epoxy. i know there are different ones out there, so let me hear from those who have success with it,and maybe brand names or something,thanks
larry
 
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2backunderme said:
can someone who finishes with uv talk me into trying it again.lol. hate to let my curing booth go to waste. i wont say what brand i was using until later, so as to not influence responses. yeh, yeh, its easy, 1 1/2 hr start to finish, i had the finish crack badly on a couple of cues. i could make it look good, but not quite as good as auto clear or epoxy. i know there are different ones out there, so let me hear from those who have success with it,and maybe brand names or something,thanks
larry
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I've had great success with none of them. I've used the water born from a guy in California and it was horrible. I've used the Axon brand that was better but I still could not rub out and at present I'm using Van Tech but just for a filler and am putting an auto clear on top for easy rub out. I need to test the Van Tech some more as I didn't give it much of a chance before the auto coat. If you discover something let me know. By the way, I've refinished a number of others cues with the UV that had cracked badly and it is caused by putting the coats on to thick. Try building thinner coats and that aspect will alleviate itself.

Dick
 
uv

thanks dick, ive heard that some guys use the uv under the auto clear, never heard that directly though 'til i just heard you say it, i might try that.
. thick coats , i dont believe that was my problem, i thin with 50% acetone, then just wet the cue, very thin, what kind of sealer do you use under your uv? van ultras? i think its 445? billiard bum has some uv that he claims is the best in the world. i think he is "unique", is that right?
im just not likely to pay $300 plus for something im not sure about,,,again,lol
L
 
2backunderme said:
, i thin with 50% acetone,
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Don't think I am reading this right. Did you say you thinned water based products with acetone. Was that recomended by the maker of the product?

I am new to cuemaking but have 34 years of auto painting exp. With todays new finishes the directions need to be followed. Pure acetone will break down the components of just about any modern coating. Might make it easier to spray, but cause problems later on, like cracking and crazing.

Just my thoughts.

Larry
 
I've never thinned any UV finishes, water based or not. The best sealer I have ever seen was an Axon 2-part product called Koa Wood Insulator and it is wonderful but the exceptionally high s/h cost and the very short shelf life made it prohibitive for me to use. At present I am using VanAqua 485 gloss as a sealer and Van Tech 583-2 as the finish. I don't like the sealer nearly as well as the Axon but it's not costing me 200.00 a quart for usable material either. It seems to be working okay but I've only been using it for about a year now so I don't know about the future. It doesn't seal Cocobolo nearly as well as the Axon brand. The sealer is water based and the finish is polyester. Someone in the past said that it's not good to mix the types of finish materials. Now I'm no expert but their statement sure sounds like good sense to me.

As far as the Unique material, I've heard it works fairly well. Supposedly much easier to rub out than most other brands. Now I'm not against someone making a profit but I feel that 300.00 a gallon is way to high when all others are in the 85 to 120.00 range.

I was very hesitant buying the UV outfit in the first place and with all of the expense and aggravation I've gone through using it, it is by far the biggest waste of 2500.00 and many, many hours of time in my life. I use it only as a filler now which it does well as it is very quick. Unlike using epoxy for a filler, which can take as much as 2 days, the UV can be sanded in as little as 10 seconds. It does speed up the finishing process.

Dick
 
Unique Products has a UV formulation that is supposed to be very good but I have not tried it.
Jim would prolly send you a sample if you asked him.

I gave up on UV and am getting excellent results with the water based sealer and gloss finish sold by General Finishes.
 
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larry, no i wasnt talking about thinning water base finishes with acetone, i was talking about uv finish, have also used acetone with auto clear just to see...couldnt find any problems with that.
larry
 
2backunderme said:
larry, no i wasnt talking about thinning water base finishes with acetone, i was talking about uv finish, have also used acetone with auto clear just to see...couldnt find any problems with that.
larry
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Showing my ignorance then. I thought uv finishes were water based.

When I painted Peterbilt trucks for a living. Dupont was constantly warning us not to over reduce the Imron paint. Saying, over reducing with even the correct reduce would breakdown the resines and cause premature failures. One time a guy thought it would be good to use laquer thinner instead of Imron reducer. Made the hardest wrinkle finish you ever saw. Had th scrap the cab. Guess nobody wanted a wrinkle finish cabover. Wrinkle finish might make for a good grip area though!!

Larry
 
rhncue said:
I've never thinned any UV finishes, water based or not. The best sealer I have ever seen was an Axon 2-part product called Koa Wood Insulator and it is wonderful but the exceptionally high s/h cost and the very short shelf life made it prohibitive for me to use. At present I am using VanAqua 485 gloss as a sealer and Van Tech 583-2 as the finish. I don't like the sealer nearly as well as the Axon but it's not costing me 200.00 a quart for usable material either. It seems to be working okay but I've only been using it for about a year now so I don't know about the future. It doesn't seal Cocobolo nearly as well as the Axon brand. The sealer is water based and the finish is polyester. Someone in the past said that it's not good to mix the types of finish materials. Now I'm no expert but their statement sure sounds like good sense to me.

As far as the Unique material, I've heard it works fairly well. Supposedly much easier to rub out than most other brands. Now I'm not against someone making a profit but I feel that 300.00 a gallon is way to high when all others are in the 85 to 120.00 range.

I was very hesitant buying the UV outfit in the first place and with all of the expense and aggravation I've gone through using it, it is by far the biggest waste of 2500.00 and many, many hours of time in my life. I use it only as a filler now which it does well as it is very quick. Unlike using epoxy for a filler, which can take as much as 2 days, the UV can be sanded in as little as 10 seconds. It does speed up the finishing process.

Dick
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I know a few guys were using VanAqua 485 for finish. How much better is the Van Tech 583-2 ????
 
cuemaker03 said:
I know a few guys were using VanAqua 485 for finish. How much better is the Van Tech 583-2 ????
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The 485 is a water base finish, not a UV. It is just sprayed on and allowed to dry. I've never tried it as a final finish although that is what it's designed for. There are a number of people using this stuff as a sealer, as I am, and then scuffing the surface and then going to the 583-2 that is a UV finish.

A couple of problem I am having with the VanAqua 485 is that it rusts my gun that I'm using to shoot it and it is very difficult to clean the gun after usage. Water doesn't clean it real well and once I made the mistake of using lacquer thinner which turned everything into a gooey mess that took me a couple of hours to get most out of the gun. The paint store told me there is a special oxygen aerated water that is used for cleaning water base paints. Even when I think that I got the gun really clean, the next time I use it some rust, orange coloring will surface on the finish in the reservoir of the gun. I am using a cheap, Horrible Fright gravity feed spot gun, but it is supposed to be all stainless, brass or plastic. A better brand of gun may give better results. I can't say.

Dick
 
Uv

Can anyone explain the pros and cons of UV. Seems like a lot of trouble and expense to keep from hanging work a couple of days? Just don't get it yet. Maybe I'm only trying to make a small quantity?
thanks,
Bill
 
JerseyBill said:
Can anyone explain the pros and cons of UV. Seems like a lot of trouble and expense to keep from hanging work a couple of days? Just don't get it yet. Maybe I'm only trying to make a small quantity?
thanks,
Bill
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A good UV finish is probably the best finish that can be used on a cue, that is if you could rub it out to it's original luster. It's very hard, it's very tough, it's very economical, there's virtually no clean up and it is clear and shines better than about any other material. Your big manufacturers use it for these reasons but they spend a million or so dollars on the spraying equipment so that they don't have to rub it out.

Dick
 
JerseyBill said:
Can anyone explain the pros and cons of UV. Seems like a lot of trouble and expense to keep from hanging work a couple of days? Just don't get it yet. Maybe I'm only trying to make a small quantity?
thanks,
Bill
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Speed is the big advantage of UV.
You can take a OB1 partial shaft, custom fit it to a cue, spray it, and have it ready to play all in less than 2 hours.

I used it for a while and it is a lot harder than auto clear coat.
A final wet sanding with 1000 grit made the rub out and polish easier.
Using rubbing compound also helped.

My big problem was fisheyes and cracking but perhaps I was applying it on a bit thick.
 
I can do the same thing with auto-clear for a lot less money; and I mean a LOT less money.
You can actually cure auto-clear in less than 1/2 hr if you know what you're doing.

McD is about the largest user of UV and I believe that part of their rational is that, as has been stated, they don't have the time or expense in the polishing process. That's all well & good but every McD cue I've seen of late has the proverbial 'fish-eye' in the finish. Maybe it's convenience vs quality.
 
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