Vaccum Stabilizer

I once soaked a maple shaft dowel in water based sealer for a few days. Then cut through it and the sealer had made it all the way through the shaft. The shaft warped pretty bad from being wet for that long. But the material went all the way through. I have seen Nelsonite take dried ink marker from the end of a shaft and carry it several inches down into a shaft in about 3 minutes. That broke me from using ink on the end of shafts.
 
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Well, I can write this. I own a complete set up. It is in Jacksonville or Georgia right now.

I feel many are trying to input, harder than it looks and easier than it looks.

You will waste some wood, that I can promise you. Some wood if you suck in with to much pressure you will close the wood pores and you will not go all the way in.

Some wood will take much longer to get to center.

Next you need the wood you want to make into a plastic type material, such as a burl.

I would rather wait till the good looking stuff comes up and done. Unless you are buying and selling the finished turning stock you might find it less time consuming and money saving to buy from someone who does this for a living and stick to making cues.

Anything can be done if you want to pay out the money, take up the space and go through the learning.
 
cueman said:
I have seen Nelsonite take dried ink marker from the end of a shaft and carry it several inches down into a shaft in about 3 minutes. That broke me from using ink on the end of shafts.
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You're not the only one...
 
meridianblades said:
Yep lot more than that. Like 4000 PSI .... Of PRESSURE. I'm sure the PVC will hold that. Then there is the stabilizing solution.......
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Is this 4000 psi number correct? I ask because I know when pressure treating lumber, in stacks of 2x6's, 2x8's etc they only reach about 150 psi on the pressure cycles and it seems to get fully thru to the core of the wood in a few hours and that's with southern pine, etc, not soft punky woods like we deal with.
Dave
 
vacuum stabilizing

this is full penetration
 

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treed said:
this is full penetration
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Was this piece done professionally, or DIY with just vacuum or vacuum with pressure?
I've done my own stabilizing, but not with dyes. Most of what I've done so far is redwood burl, which ends up dying the stabilizing fluid....lol
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
Is this 4000 psi number correct? I ask because I know when pressure treating lumber, in stacks of 2x6's, 2x8's etc they only reach about 150 psi on the pressure cycles and it seems to get fully thru to the core of the wood in a few hours and that's with southern pine, etc, not soft punky woods like we deal with.
Dave
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Im not going to bash anyone, so if you wanna see the pics I am referring to, use the search. Machining is the test to know wood is stabilized? End grain absorption with Nelsonite..... Sounds like its ALL been figured out here. For those that have questions do your own research and testing.

This is from the K/G site....

"K & G is the leader in the industry when it comes to stabilizing with over 23 years of experience. We are the original custom stabilizers for the knife industry. K & G has two different chemical solutions to stabilize with depending on the hardness/denseness of your material. A thinner solution is used to ensure penetration on materials such as ivory, horn, stag, bone and any hard or oily woods. Our thicker solution is used on woods that are softer and less dense. The thicker solution will make your original piece of wood double or nearly double in weight therefore providing a more durable piece of material to work with while bringing out the true luster of the figure in your wood. K & G’s process is done under pressure up to 4000lbs. This ensures full penetration of your wood/material. After your wood/material has been impregnated it will be cured for at least 20 hours. At this point your wood/material can be worked on whether it is a knife handle or some other application."
 
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You wanna do your own..... This is the direction I would head. Before and after cutting it in half. Green maple burl. Blue maple burl dyed and stabilized the way it is supposed to be. That is the cored piece on the left...

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meridianblades said:
Im not going to bash anyone, so if you wanna see the pics I am referring to, use the search. Machining is the test to know wood is stabilized? End grain absorption with Nelsonite..... Sounds like its ALL been figured out here. For those that have questions do your own research and testing.

This is from the K/G site....

"K & G is the leader in the industry when it comes to stabilizing with over 23 years of experience. We are the original custom stabilizers for the knife industry. K & G has two different chemical solutions to stabilize with depending on the hardness/denseness of your material. A thinner solution is used to ensure penetration on materials such as ivory, horn, stag, bone and any hard or oily woods. Our thicker solution is used on woods that are softer and less dense. The thicker solution will make your original piece of wood double or nearly double in weight therefore providing a more durable piece of material to work with while bringing out the true luster of the figure in your wood. K & G’s process is done under pressure up to 4000lbs. This ensures full penetration of your wood/material. After your wood/material has been impregnated it will be cured for at least 20 hours. At this point your wood/material can be worked on whether it is a knife handle or some other application."
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Thanks for the clarification. Have you done any stabilizing yourself? Or have you only had it done by this company? If you know the owners, could you let them know they misspelled 'Stabilizing' and Custom' on their list of topics.
Dave
 
you ever notice

how some used car dealers are always saying how great their cars are and all the other dealers cars are crap.
 
meridianblades said:
Im not going to bash anyone, so if you wanna see the pics I am referring to, use the search. Machining is the test to know wood is stabilized? End grain absorption with Nelsonite..... Sounds like its ALL been figured out here
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End grain absorption was not in reference to impregnation.

No one here has stated they have it all figured out. I know what works for me. As you know, I've sent my wood off to be professionally impregnated*, have done my own impregnation*, and worked with wood that you (and others) have sent me from their very own professionals. I think I have a broad experience base to make my conclusions. 4000psi affects the wood internally by stressing it. You may not see it as you hold the piece when it comes back to you but as you turn it, issues may turn up. If you made cues, I think your opinion may come from a different perspective.


*changing stabilized to impregnate since one is a process and the other is a result, in the context.
 
ratcues said:
End grain absorption was not in reference to impregnation.

No one here has stated they have it all figured out. I know what works for me. As you know, I've sent my wood off to be professionally impregnated*, have done my own impregnation*, and worked with wood that you (and others) have sent me from their very own professionals. I think I have a broad experience base to make my conclusions. 4000psi affects the wood internally by stressing it. You may not see it as you hold the piece when it comes back to you but as you turn it, issues may turn up. If you made cues, I think your opinion may come from a different perspective.


*changing stabilized to impregnate since one is a process and the other is a result, in the context.
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I tried using the term "impregnate" but my wife says those days are over.:grin:

Anyway, what is the acceptable degree of stabilization? Remember the resin
is essentially liquid acrylic resin. Do you want your CUE WOOD 15%, 25%, 50% or 75% acrylic?
When does it stop being wood and becomes acrylic resin supported by wood?
5,000 PSI to stabilize CUE WOOD is akin to using a sledge hammer to drive a thumb tack. I am sure it works great for knife handles but is overkill for CUE WOOD.
 
Next time ill keep it to myself and not post a pic. Ill read up on the subject and when I come to a conclusion, not going to post that either. I might pm it. This is going from an exchange of info to an opinion contest like the last epoxy thread. Sorry I posted.
 
ratcues said:
End grain absorption was not in reference to impregnation.

No one here has stated they have it all figured out. I know what works for me. As you know, I've sent my wood off to be professionally impregnated*, have done my own impregnation*, and worked with wood that you (and others) have sent me from their very own professionals. I think I have a broad experience base to make my conclusions. 4000psi affects the wood internally by stressing it. You may not see it as you hold the piece when it comes back to you but as you turn it, issues may turn up. If you made cues, I think your opinion may come from a different perspective.


*changing stabilized to impregnate since one is a process and the other is a result, in the context.
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You got that right. I had mine "professionally stabilized". Surprise, surprise after I turned them. Huge voids from the stresses. A big of waste of money..expensive board...expensive exercise.
 
Thomas Wayne said:
Yeah! That'll teach 'em to dare have an opinion that differs from yours!

TW
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ROFL well I would expect a better answer than that, and being you cut out the rest of that post, well, wonder at that. I never had an opinion about this subject and rather than having a discussion its turned into something else. Being you dont know me from adam, I dont know how you could have any idea what Im really like. Theres more than one way to do anything.
 
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MVPCues said:
You got that right. I had mine "professionally stabilized". Surprise, surprise after I turned them. Huge voids from the stresses. A big of waste of money..expensive board...expensive exercise.
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I have been wondering what the effects of alot of pressure would do to some woods. The cell structure of soft punky woods is already compromised due to decay, I would tend to think it may collapse some of the cell walls, leaving the voids you speak of. I only use vaccum to stabilize.
Dave
 
Reminds me of my day today. I went to home depot, with a worn out washer, to get new washers. I asked for some guidance, because I didn't know where they were. Well, the employee told me I needed cone washers when I thought I needed flat ones. Morale: sometimes it's best not to take advice because sometimes you know a lot more than who you're listening to.
 
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