Very different model 20 Palmer on ebay

Plus it doesn't have a window. I'm pretty sure it's a one of a kind.

I've had some prior communication with the owner of the cue. My feeling is that it's pretty rough but is repairable.

I think the cue was built in the early 1980's from spare parts Palmer had. They started using those snowflake inlays on the Model 13, 3rd catalog. Then they used them heavily in the 1981 - 1984 time period. They were inlayed by drillng a hole, so they were better suited for production than the diamonds (which are hand cut).

Besides the repairs needed, what hurts the value on this cue somewhat is that it only has one shaft. I also think it would be more valuable if it were a regular Model 20. In the case of a famous design, I think it's better to have the exact catalog cue than a modified one.

With the proper work, this cue could be a stunning beauty.

Chris
 
TATE said:
Plus it doesn't have a window. I'm pretty sure it's a one of a kind.

I've had some prior communication with the owner of the cue. My feeling is that it's pretty rough but is repairable.

I think the cue was built in the early 1980's from spare parts Palmer had. They started using those snowflake inlays on the Model 13, 3rd catalog. Then they used them heavily in the 1981 - 1984 time period. They were inlayed by drillng a hole, so they were better suited for production than the diamonds (which are hand cut).

Besides the repairs needed, what hurts the value on this cue somewhat is that it only has one shaft. I also think it would be more valuable if it were a regular Model 20. In the case of a famous design, I think it's better to have the exact catalog cue than a modified one.

With the proper work, this cue could be a stunning beauty.

Chris
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I agree, one shaft hurts the value. But from a collectors standpoint, one of one beats one of 100 everytime. The only time I find this doesn't really apply, is when maybe its a celebration cue, Ginacues 30 / 40 year models come to mind.

What we find with Palmers, we have three customers that have completed the first two catalogs, all original, right to the catalogs. If the cue had an odd joint, different wrap, they wouldn't buy them. They wouldn't buy this cue. But I know some collectors that would rather have the one off appeal then the production models. To each his own.

IMHO the only model 20 I would want to own is the rosewood version that we had about 8 years ago. The only one we have seen, ever. It had beautiful grain, nice inlay work.

Joe
 
Joe,

I wouldn't trade one of my original Model 20 shafts for this whole cue. I figure it's worth $1200 - $1500 as is, roughly 1/3rd of the going rate for a decent original Model 20 with two shafts.

I thought they used rosewood too, but it's almost certainly Macassar ebony. The Macassar they were getting looked just like Brazilian rosewood, beautiful stuff. Same on the Model 11's.

Chris
 
I'm With Joe On This One. 1 Of 1, Over 1 Of 100, Anytime. Maybe I'm Odd But, The Rarity Is The Cool Part Of This Cue. What Would I Know Though, I Don't Collect Palmers. Maybe It's A Different Ball Game.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I'm With Joe On This One. 1 Of 1, Over 1 Of 100, Anytime. Maybe I'm Odd But, The Rarity Is The Cool Part Of This Cue. What Would I Know Though, I Don't Collect Palmers. Maybe It's A Different Ball Game.
Click to expand...

Sometimes one of a kind is worth more, sometimes not. It depends on the cues.

When it comes to famous designs, it's often not the case. I don't even know if I would even consider the cue to be a "Model 20". The changed butt sleeve is what bothers me. It's some kind of custom Palmer, but it's worth less than an original Model 20 to me.

The same holds true with R model Schons. Most of the cues that are exact to the R catalog sell for a lot more than comparable variations, even if they are one of a kind. For example, there's an R-14 on E-Bay right now that I predict will bring more than my R-14 would, even though mine has custom butt rings and is unique. The reason? It's identical to the Schon R series catalog.

Chris
 
TATE said:
Sometimes one of a kind is worth more, sometimes not. It depends on the cues.

When it comes to famous designs, it's often not the case. I don't even know if I would even consider the cue to be a "Model 20". The changed butt sleeve is what bothers me. It's some kind of custom Palmer, but it's worth less than an original Model 20 to me.

The same holds true with R model Schons. Most of the cues that are exact to the R catalog sell for a lot more than comparable variations, even if they are one of a kind. For example, there's an R-14 on E-Bay right now that I predict will bring more than my R-14 would, even though mine has custom butt rings and is unique. The reason? It's identical to the Schon R series catalog.

Chris
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TO YOU IT MAY BE WORTH LESS, THAN A STANDARD MODEL CUE, BUT I FEEL IT IS MORE INTERESTING TO MOST CUSTOM CUE COLLECTORS. LIKE I SAID, IN MY PREVIOUS POST, MAYBE I'M ODD, BUT 1 OF 1 , HAS WAY MORE INTREST TO ME. I WOULD WANT A 1 OF 1 TASCARELLA, BEFORE I WOULD WANT A 1 OF 100 CUE. JUST MY 2 CENTS THOUGH. I'M NOT REALLY INTO PRODUCTION STYLE CUES SO MAYBE I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE SCHON MARKET EITHER.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
TO YOU IT MAY BE WORTH LESS, THAN A STANDARD MODEL CUE, BUT I FEEL IT IS MORE INTERESTING TO MOST CUSTOM CUE COLLECTORS. LIKE I SAID, IN MY PREVIOUS POST, MAYBE I'M ODD, BUT 1 OF 1 , HAS WAY MORE INTREST TO ME. I WOULD WANT A 1 OF 1 TASCARELLA, BEFORE I WOULD WANT A 1 OF 100 CUE. JUST MY 2 CENTS THOUGH. I'M NOT REALLY INTO PRODUCTION STYLE CUES SO MAYBE I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE SCHON MARKET EITHER.
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Marcus, personally I'm with you on this one, but "palmer collectors" are a different breed. ;) There's probably more collectors looking to "fill in a line" so-to-speak than ones specializing in acquiring just custom one-of-one examples.

This really is an interesting cue....wish it didn't need a butt cap or I might have an interest. Due to the extreme rarity, anything under $1500 is IMO stealin'...even with the one shaft.

Sean
 
cueaddicts said:
Marcus, personally I'm with you on this one, but "palmer collectors" are a different breed. ;) There's probably more collectors looking to "fill in a line" so-to-speak than ones specializing in acquiring just custom one-of-one examples.

This really is an interesting cue....wish it didn't need a butt cap or I might have an interest. Due to the extreme rarity, anything under $1500 is IMO stealin'...even with the one shaft.

Sean
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The thing is about Palmers, there were a lot of custom one-of-a-kind cues, so it's not very uncommon to find them. I really don't consider them "a valuable one-of-a-kind" , but just a variation on a theme. Typically it will be like this, a different inlay pattern and a butt configuration from stock parts or from a different cue.

I run across and own a lot of custom palmers. In many cases, it's actually more difficult to locate exact catalog cues in original condition. Out of the many duplicate cues I have, few are identical to each other.

In the early days, Palmer was a custom shop. They would build the base cues in large quantity, several hundred blanks with joints mounted. then they would inlay, wrap, finish the cue to order, and make the shafts. Some cues would be put together from a variety of parts and sold locally at the shop (I think this is one). So there was a lot of variation.

When it comes to one-of-a-kind cues, I think they're valuable when they are truly different. For example, they built an interesting 8 Ball cue for Jack Colavita. I thought that cue was quite valuable because it was interesting, unique, and was hand built by Eugene Balner.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
When it comes to one-of-a-kind cues, I think they're valuable when they are truly different. For example, they built an interesting 8 Ball cue for Jack Colavita. I thought that cue was quite valuable because it was interesting, unique, and was hand built by Eugene Balner.

Chris
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Except when this cue first hit the market the guy was asking 8k for the Colavita 8 ball cue. So the problem with some Palmers is they evidently came with a vile of crack.

Joe
 
classiccues said:
Except when this cue first hit the market the guy was asking 8k for the Colavita 8 ball cue. So the problem with some Palmers is they evidently came with a vile of crack.

Joe
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True.

But this cue came with a whole truckload of it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7214527703&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

It's just a model 13, 3rd catalog.

I told the seller he was getting scammed, told him what the scam was, how he would be scammed, and even told him who he was getting scammed by. So what does he do? He accepts the bid! I can see why these scammers prosper on E-Bay. He was convinced that his cue was worth over $5,000 despite reality.

Chris
 
TATE said:
True.

But this cue came with a whole truckload of it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7214527703&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

It's just a model 13, 3rd catalog.

I told the seller he was getting scammed, told him what the scam was, how he would be scammed, and even told him who he was getting scammed by. So what does he do? He accepts the bid! I can see why these scammers prosper on E-Bay. He was convinced that his cue was worth over $5,000 despite reality.

Chris
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Well the cue does have a red, white, blue veneer pattern.

Joe
 
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