Videos of practice - Straight Shots and stopping cue

jwalko1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A couple of days ago, I posted about difficulty with longer straight shots. Here are a couple of videos showing my set up and stroke. I set up as instructed by Scott Lee with the hole reinforcers on the table. I am about 3.5 diamonds away from the OB on these shots.

All I am trying to do here is to make sure my stroke is straight, I'm not moving after the shot, etc. I'm trying to get into a standard pre-shot routine and I'm trying to stop the cue ball dead after it hits the OB.

Some things I noticed.
1. My back (right) arm is slightly ahead of 90 degrees at set up. Not sure this is too much of a problem. If I hold the cue back further (to where my arm is at 90 degrees), it feels very strange/not comfortable and i miss more shots. I feel like I have more control like this.
2. I can stop the cue ball...but am still having a little difficulty with hitting the OB perfect. You note on some shots the cue ball slides a little to the left. On some, it rolls 1/2 ball forward. On others, it does stop dead.
3. On one of the videos, I forgot my glasses...you'll see me reaching up to adjust them (when they aren't there). Force of habit.
4. I am consciously trying to pause at the back of my back stroke. Watching the videos, it doesn't appear to be that long of a pause...but when doing it, it feels like a long pause. Probably because I've not done this before...however, I do seem to increase my shot making w/ this pause.

Video 1:
https://vimeo.com/49250060

Video 2:
https://vimeo.com/49250059

On a side note...I was playing some 8 and 9-ball w/ a friend last night. My shot making has definitely improved in the last couple of weeks (after taking summer off). Ran first rack of 8-ball and first rack of 9-ball. For the most part, was running 5-6 balls at a time if not running out. Felt comfortable at table. Position was OK...but I attribute part of my struggle with position to playing on his table...which is a lot (A LOT) slower than mine.

However...there is still lots of room for improvement.

Please critique bridge length, body position, stroke, etc.

Thanks;

John
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
Hi John. That's a good looking video, now we can assess your Delivery. No doubt you have put some hard work into this stroke.

REMEMBER: Even a bad habit can feel comfortable.

1. Your elbow drops on every shot just about the time you make contact with the cue ball. I'm sure this is from having your back hand way too far forward. You actually set up in the Finish position. Get your hand back to right under your elbow with the cue tip at the cue ball.

2. You changed your warm-up pattern a couple of different times. Try to keep the same Cadence.

3. Sure looks like you are looking at the cue ball last and then trying to snap your eyes up to the target in the middle of your stroke.


Nice job and good luck
randyg
 

jwalko1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi John. That's a good looking video, now we can assess your Delivery. No doubt you have put some hard work into this stroke.

REMEMBER: Even a bad habit can feel comfortable.

1. Your elbow drops on every shot just about the time you make contact with the cue ball. I'm sure this is from having your back hand way too far forward. You actually set up in the Finish position. Get your hand back to right under your elbow with the cue tip at the cue ball.

2. You changed your warm-up pattern a couple of different times. Try to keep the same Cadence.

3. Sure looks like you are looking at the cue ball last and then trying to snap your eyes up to the target in the middle of your stroke.


Nice job and good luck
randyg

Randy:

Thanks. Regarding #1...I tried working on moving my hand back. I'll have to try harder...I've been doing it that way for so many years, its hard to change.

2. I need to get a solid PSR down.

3. This is a new problem. I always looked at the spot on the OB that I was shooting at...but only recently find myself sometimes looking at the cue when I shoot. Usually when this happens I miss.

I appreciate the help.

John
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not an instructor.

What I noticed is that you are shooting way too hard. Its all in the stroke not the applied force.

I didnt notice your elbow dropping, in fact I was a little surprised it didnt.

Study most male pros and you will notice an elbow drop of a few inches for follow thru (letting the stick continue forward after contact with the QB - not forced)

About the glasses, either lose them of get pool shooting frames or possibly contacts.

If there is anyway you can manage it, get an instructor to help you.

Try this, with no QB. Line up behind the QB reinforcement on the table, take your normal stance (as though there is really a cueball there) and then shoot at the contact point on the OB. This is the stroke. Your tip should finish pointing at the contact point on the OB and your grip hand will finish at some point near your breast. ( i dont know what muscle area that is :eek:)

Now use the QB you will notice a big difference. Shoot thru the QB not at it.

John
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
Regarding #1...I tried working on moving my hand back. I'll have to try harder...I've been doing it that way for so many years, its hard to change.

on one of my cues my normal grip position puts my pinkie right on the edge of my wrap.. I can feel when I'm in the right place..

on other cues or wrapless cues that doesn't work so I put a piece of masking tape around the butt right where my pinkie should be while I practice..

might be something to try for a few weeks while you ingrain the new habit
 

Hungarian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Randy,

Hope you are doing good.

I find that my accuracy goes up when I choke up, shoot softer and get closer to the cue ball. This requires me to bend my bridging arm instead of locking it. Kind of like how Jeff Sparks used to play if you can visualize what I'm saying. I learned alot from hanging around Jeff. Also, my cue is a Cognoscenti which is 57" so it's short compared to other cues. I've got a pretty long wing span..i.e., 6'2". What do you think about what I am saying?

Thanks,
Mark in Houston.

PS> do you remember an event in Houston back in the early 1990's where at the end of the event they have a cue auction? I can't even remember what the event was but I bought a plain jane Cognoscenti in that cue auction that if I remember correctly belonged to you or one of your teaching partners at the time who was from Dallas. I still play with that Cog today. Does this ring a bell?


Hi John. That's a good looking video, now we can assess your Delivery. No doubt you have put some hard work into this stroke.

REMEMBER: Even a bad habit can feel comfortable.

1. Your elbow drops on every shot just about the time you make contact with the cue ball. I'm sure this is from having your back hand way too far forward. You actually set up in the Finish position. Get your hand back to right under your elbow with the cue tip at the cue ball.

2. You changed your warm-up pattern a couple of different times. Try to keep the same Cadence.

3. Sure looks like you are looking at the cue ball last and then trying to snap your eyes up to the target in the middle of your stroke.


Nice job and good luck
randyg
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
The only additional thing to add that I noticed is that on a few shots you tended to snap back your cue after contact with the OB.

Work on following through, and freezing at the end. By freezing you can assess your finishing position, tip placement, and your cradle.

I like your setup, keep working on the things that Randy commented on.

Good Rolls,

Tony
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John, I've received some back-handed criticisms for saying this in past posts, but I'm going to say it again anyway: Watching someone shoot set-up shots one after another is not helpful because we can't see you shooting as if you were actually shooting in a real game.

For example: Your set up of laying the cue down and then stepping into your shot won't work much of the time in a real game for the obvious reason of other balls on the table.

So what happens when you get into a real game with balls on the table and you're faced with this shot and you can't lay your cue down to step into your stance? You've just been thrown out of your comfort zone and now you must make an adjustment against all the brainwashing you did to yourself in practice. Tough stuff.
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
Hey Randy,

Hope you are doing good.

I find that my accuracy goes up when I choke up, shoot softer and get closer to the cue ball. This requires me to bend my bridging arm instead of locking it. Kind of like how Jeff Sparks used to play if you can visualize what I'm saying. I learned alot from hanging around Jeff. Also, my cue is a Cognoscenti which is 57" so it's short compared to other cues. I've got a pretty long wing span..i.e., 6'2". What do you think about what I am saying?

Thanks,
Mark in Houston.

PS> do you remember an event in Houston back in the early 1990's where at the end of the event they have a cue auction? I can't even remember what the event was but I bought a plain jane Cognoscenti in that cue auction that if I remember correctly belonged to you or one of your teaching partners at the time who was from Dallas. I still play with that Cog today. Does this ring a bell?

Sure does. Leslie Rogers.

randyg
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
John:

I'm going to give you some advice for free, so you have nothing to risk. I charge good money to give lessons in person.

You are standing too far from the cue ball, at least in these shots on the video where you are standing beyond the corner of the table to lean to the shot!

The giveaway is the manner in which you telescope your left arm by sliding the bridge hand forward along the table toward the cue ball. You have a nice looking stroke and mechanics. Good players like yourself move the bridge hand when they're too far from the shot. Weak players move the back hand and ruin all the delicate angles they need to shoot effectively.

How long does your bridge length feel when you shoot? Try some shooting "like usual" but remind yourself to shuffle forward beyond where you used to begin from, so much so that when your left hand touches cloth--boom--it's where it needs to be and doesn't need to slide forward into place. Watch your left hand after it meets the cloth and before it clasps the cue stick in the video to see what I mean.

All Randy G. is saying is beautiful, and closer feet and a shorter bridge length will provide the right arm angle and stroking he's requesting of you.

Thanks.
 

Hungarian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure does. Leslie Rogers.

randyg

Ok, but do you remember what the event was and why there was an auction? My memory is failing me...lol

I'm just glad I was there because I bought the Cognosenti of rlike $400 if I recall correctly. I love that cue and it's my main player still today..

Do you remember who the Cog belonged to?

Just curious..

Cheers,
MArk
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John...I also liked most of what I saw. Move your grip hand completely off your wrap, and you'll be in the correct position for that bridge length...and you'll be perpendicular at ball address (that means when your tip is touching the CB). When you're ready, there are several good instructors near you.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 

jwalko1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks everyone for the replies.

Regarding rear hand positioning, I'm trying to move my hand back. I shot for about an hour last night with my hand on the end of the wrap. This is about 3-4" back from where I was in the video.

'm working back to where my arm will be at a 90 degree angle when the tip is at the cue ball. It feels really weird. On the plus side, I was making balls last night. I was just setting up a series of both straight and cut shots from different positions on the table to get a feel for moving my hand back. Shoot 10 from one position...when I make 10 in a row...move to another shot.

I've a feeling this is going to take some time. I tried just moving my hand back off the wrap...my shot percentage went way down...I feel like I don't have control over the cue...by moving back in smaller increments, I'm getting the feel for it.

Also focusing on staying absolutely still, following through and keeping stroke straight. Trying to develop muscle memory. This is hard to change after 25+ years of not really "doing it right". Its like trying to re-learn all over again. But, I firmly believe solid fundamentals make a better player. I've been stuck at the same level of play pretty much since I can back to pool a few years ago...this is why I am back to focusing on the basics.

Thanks again!

John
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John...Naturally it's going to feel "weird" moving your grip hand back several inches. You have played for a long time with your hand in the 'wrong' place, and become used to it (adjusting/compensating without knowing it). For what I saw on the videos, your hand should be completely behind the wrap. Yes it will feel strange, and cause you to miss shots initially, because you're focusing on the change in grip, without realizing it. But, I bet you'll play a LOT better within a few weeks if you keep your grip hand off the wrap (either that, or move your bridge closer, so that you're perpendicular, with your old grip placement). One or the other has to change...well it doesn't HAVE to, but the learning curve will be much easier if you do.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Regarding rear hand positioning, I'm trying to move my hand back. I shot for about an hour last night with my hand on the end of the wrap. This is about 3-4" back from where I was in the video.

'm working back to where my arm will be at a 90 degree angle when the tip is at the cue ball. It feels really weird. On the plus side, I was making balls last night. I was just setting up a series of both straight and cut shots from different positions on the table to get a feel for moving my hand back. Shoot 10 from one position...when I make 10 in a row...move to another shot.

I've a feeling this is going to take some time. I tried just moving my hand back off the wrap...my shot percentage went way down...I feel like I don't have control over the cue...by moving back in smaller increments, I'm getting the feel for it.

Also focusing on staying absolutely still, following through and keeping stroke straight. Trying to develop muscle memory. This is hard to change after 25+ years of not really "doing it right". Its like trying to re-learn all over again. But, I firmly believe solid fundamentals make a better player. I've been stuck at the same level of play pretty much since I can back to pool a few years ago...this is why I am back to focusing on the basics.

Thanks again!

John
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
John:

I agree with Scott that you can choke back on the stick and fix your angles for that long bridge. However, try getting closer to the ball and using a shorter bridge as I suggest. Admittedly, you were bridging over the corner of the table in the videos...

A long bridge like the one you shoot with means you have to get lucky to time the shot just right. You take a rank beginner and have them use a two-inch bridge if they need until they get their timing together. If you are successful with short bridge shots for a while, even during a single session of play, when you get all the way back there the timing will be right. Use a shorter bridge by standing closer to the ball then report back if you don't mind.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Whoops! I must have been composing my response at the same time as Mr. Lee. Sorry for the confusion.

Try both methods and compare. Fixing a stance is not a one size fits all proposition so even if the short bridge solves your problem it may not work for every player...
 
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