Vivian the criminal can't delete this thread.

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Point being is only that it makes zero sense for him to come on here and fabricate a story like this. Why on earth would anyone take the time to go through all this just to make up a lie and put it on AzB forums? Makes no sense.
And yes, I do believe VV has a history of starting something she didn't finish. Not positive but I think it happened not too long ago.

and then again, what sense is it to commit forgery for $4.16? The whole thing is unfigurable!
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So the difference between the two cheques is 3.3%. Was there some tax or service charge that perhaps the OP agreed to pay in subsequent emails and authorized her to change?

I just think there is more to the story than the OP is saying. I get that he is mad (and rightly so) about not getting his entry fee refunded, but it seems very odd for her to alter a cheque for $4.62 without more to the story.
 

racefornine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We were in communication about friends of mine who were still owed, and other checks that were written much later. When I realized I also got robbed in a really sneaky manner and called her out she stopped responding. If there is more to the story its on her end and I too would love to hear it.
 

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
and then again, what sense is it to commit forgery for $4.16? The whole thing is unfigurable!

I agree but it was actually for 144.16, not 4.16. He sent a new check so, at least to me, it looks like she tried to get away with keeping the first check.

You're right though, the whole thing is screwy as hell.
 

michael4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's pretty close, there are some things that give me pause.
Without the original documents it would be tough to tell for sure

as others have mentioned,, when you use a checkbook with carbon copies underneath (my wife still does), the papers don't always line up perfectly, and sometimes the paper below moves, and you get slight differences as you noticed in the pics....

these are definitely two copies of the same check, and same check number.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree but it was actually for 144.16, not 4.16. He sent a new check so, at least to me, it looks like she tried to get away with keeping the first check.

You're right though, the whole thing is screwy as hell.

Im not going back to reread everything but i THINK the forgery only relates to $4 and some odd cents. The not refunding is an entirely different issue and not necessarily criminal or knowable to us..
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We were in communication about friends of mine who were still owed, and other checks that were written much later. When I realized I also got robbed in a really sneaky manner and called her out she stopped responding. If there is more to the story its on her end and I too would love to hear it.

Okay, to ask more directly:

(1) Was the entry supposed to be $140 or $144.62?
(2) Was there supposed to be some tax or service charge included (which would have made it $144.62)?
(3) Was some shortfall discussed with her before she cashed the cheque and was she authorized to increase the amount of the cheque?
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Gold Member
Silver Member
The check was altered, but who altered it?

Where is Perry Mason when you need him?
 
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racefornine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gideon, $140, no and no. This check was written in July, altered and cashed in mid August. In September she said she hadn't received this check. I quickly checked my statements for the amount. When I didn't see $140 I assumed it lost and reissued a check for $140. I also sent a 3rd check for $420 for 3 qualifiers I ran. The 2nd and 3rd checks that I wrote were never altered or cashed. It was only when I was consolidating my books for taxes that I realized what happened.
 

racefornine

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wrote a check, someone who had authority to use The Tornado Open bank account altered and cashed said check. If it wasn't her she knows who it was and is protecting him/her, or it was her.
 

Celophanewrap

Call me Grace
Silver Member
Point being is only that it makes zero sense for him to come on here and fabricate a story like this. Why on earth would anyone take the time to go through all this just to make up a lie and put it on AzB forums? Makes no sense.
And yes, I do believe VV has a history of starting something she didn't finish. Not positive but I think it happened not too long ago.

Who would do that? A sicko, someone with a grudge, but there are definitely no people
like that here on this website.
The things you allege, I don't know about Vivian. I've seen her on TV once or twice, but I
don't know anything about her and I don't know anything about racefornine, and I don't
know if there's any sort of history between them. I'm not even saying you're wrong or that
either of them is lying, I'm just saying what I see. If I was on a jury, and this was the case
before me, at this point I'd probably have to go with the defendant. Not so much because
I believe she's innocent, but there simply isn't much proof beyond some character witnesses.
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1. OP should have never started this thread without including the "evidence".
2. OP has no proof of any kind "Vivian the criminal" altered his check - what she may or may not know or care to find out about who did it is very much a far cry from committing the criminal act of forgery - this thread title and thread starter were not appropriate at all.
3. It appears someone may have. 3.3% was the fee for credit card payments, so maybe some dummy that was putting a deposit together did that (okay, real idiot, lol) - may not have been legal, but likely not part of some scheme to defraud someone out of $4.62 - still wrong.
4. If OP didn't get that rectified by the bank and he has said nothing about that issue, it's HIS OWN FAULT. The only possible reason is he let some legally binding time pass (or just didn't bother to find out if he was told that it did, whether that was a fact). Totally his fault, or he would absolutely have his $4.62 and likely the other $140 since the instrument was altered.
5. The "I didn't catch it because I was looking for $140" is a little embarrassing. You look for the check number, you look for the payee, you actually look at your statement when you get it and reconcile your account.
6. OP finally says he really didn't catch it until sometime in February - makes little sense, but seems to me you take your lumps over losing $4.62 and also the $140.00 by not apparently taking this up with the bank in a timely fashion, if at all, rather than call someone a forger when you absolutely don't have the proof she did it.

Poor personal financial practices leading to an anonymous attack on an Internet forum, some people like that sort of thing.

She may owe a lot of people money and not be paying it, but that really doesn't excuse the accusation that has been walked back quite a bit by the OP.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Who would do that? A sicko, someone with a grudge, but there are definitely no people
like that here on this website.
The things you allege, I don't know about Vivian. I've seen her on TV once or twice, but I
don't know anything about her and I don't know anything about racefornine, and I don't
know if there's any sort of history between them. I'm not even saying you're wrong or that
either of them is lying, I'm just saying what I see. If I was on a jury, and this was the case
before me, at this point I'd probably have to go with the defendant. Not so much because
I believe she's innocent, but there simply isn't much proof beyond some character witnesses.

How do you drive being this blind?
Jason
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
1. OP should have never started this thread without including the "evidence".
2. OP has no proof of any kind "Vivian the criminal" altered his check - what she may or may not know or care to find out about who did it is very much a far cry from committing the criminal act of forgery - this thread title and thread starter were not appropriate at all.
3. It appears someone may have. 3.3% was the fee for credit card payments, so maybe some dummy that was putting a deposit together did that (okay, real idiot, lol) - may not have been legal, but likely not part of some scheme to defraud someone out of $4.62 - still wrong.
4. If OP didn't get that rectified by the bank and he has said nothing about that issue, it's HIS OWN FAULT. The only possible reason is he let some legally binding time pass (or just didn't bother to find out if he was told that it did, whether that was a fact). Totally his fault, or he would absolutely have his $4.62 and likely the other $140 since the instrument was altered.
5. The "I didn't catch it because I was looking for $140" is a little embarrassing. You look for the check number, you look for the payee, you actually look at your statement when you get it and reconcile your account.
6. OP finally says he really didn't catch it until sometime in February - makes little sense, but seems to me you take your lumps over losing $4.62 and also the $140.00 by not apparently taking this up with the bank in a timely fashion, if at all, rather than call someone a forger when you absolutely don't have the proof she did it.

Poor personal financial practices leading to an anonymous attack on an Internet forum, some people like that sort of thing.

She may owe a lot of people money and not be paying it, but that really doesn't excuse the accusation that has been walked back quite a bit by the OP.

^^^^^^^another person that cant be trusted. Are you proud of yourself?
Jason
 

jojopiff

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the most unbelievable threads I’ve ever seen. When a known thief & liar...thieves & lies to a person and said person comes forward he/she (sorry didn’t pay attention to your gender & this day in age I damn sure don’t wanna assume) is met with “PROVE IT” and then when he/she proves it...it’s met with “who cares it’s only $4”. Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and maybe, others ought to be weary of dealings with you if this isn’t wrong to you.
 

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the most unbelievable threads I’ve ever seen. When a known thief & liar...thieves & lies to a person and said person comes forward he/she (sorry didn’t pay attention to your gender & this day in age I damn sure don’t wanna assume) is met with “PROVE IT” and then when he/she proves it...it’s met with “who cares it’s only $4”. Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and maybe, others ought to be weary of dealings with you if this isn’t wrong to you.

The level of dumbfookery in our society is mind boggling these days. :thumbup:
 

RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the most unbelievable threads I’ve ever seen. When a known thief & liar...thieves & lies to a person and said person comes forward he/she (sorry didn’t pay attention to your gender & this day in age I damn sure don’t wanna assume) is met with “PROVE IT” and then when he/she proves it...it’s met with “who cares it’s only $4”. Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and maybe, others ought to be weary of dealings with you if this isn’t wrong to you.
Agree with this ^^^
 

jeephawk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the most unbelievable threads I’ve ever seen. When a known thief & liar...thieves & lies to a person and said person comes forward he/she (sorry didn’t pay attention to your gender & this day in age I damn sure don’t wanna assume) is met with “PROVE IT” and then when he/she proves it...it’s met with “who cares it’s only $4”. Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourself, and maybe, others ought to be weary of dealings with you if this isn’t wrong to you.

In the end, the point is he called someone a criminal and has no evidence that person committed a crime.

Somebody may have, of course it's possible "that person" may have, but that's all it is. Had a bad experience with the tournament, didn't pay attention to his own business (and yes that's his fault and he could have easily gotten his whole $144.62 back if he'd paid attention to his bank statements - the bank was 100% on the hook for the altered check).

Rail against her all you want for running a lousy operation, not refunding money, and on and on - but don't look for a bunch of attention by posting about something that happened over six months ago, cost you $4.62 you completely failed to notice and call someone a criminal and claim she altered a check when you have no evidence that she did so.

Anyway, I enjoy reading 99.9% of what is on here, learning a lot about cues, tables, where the game is at right now and where it's been so going back to reading some positive things this evening! No point getting into any more back and forth over less than $5.00 that someone honestly didn't care that much about to take care of it at the time.
 
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