Warning about an ebay Palmer

TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
This cue has a Palmer decal but I'm pretty sure it's an Adam El Dorado from the early 1970's:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Palmer-Cue-2-shafts-orig-and-Drexler-newly-refinished-18-oz-excellent-cond-/110945024127?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d4d6b87f

I already let the seller know my thoughts. I can see where it may have been mistakenly identified as a Palmer and in the restoration process a reproduction decal was applied. The decal is also too large and the veneer colors are not right for a Titlist.

Chris
 
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Rockin' Robin said:
Looks like a National/Gandy cue to me...the older shaft has what seems to be an aluminum insert.
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I was just going to post about that insert.

It is an interesting cue and not unlikely misidentified.

The aluminum insert jumped out at me for one thing.





.
 
Looks like a Palmer to me

Looks like a Palmer to me, I remember many Palmers from the early 70's. I have one now!
 
Definitely looks like an Adam to me, I knew two guys who both had that exact cue. Not a Palmer, that's for sure.
 
It's an Adam El Dorado, as reported by Tate. It is admittedy similar to the Palmer Model 3 from their frist catalog, but there are important differences. First, the Palmer Model 3 was made with a rosewood or similar Titlist forearm, no inlays, not what is pictured. Second, the nickel rings in the Palmer 3 are much thinner in the butt plate. Third, there is no bumper in the Palmer model 3, as shown in the ebay pictures of this cue. Not that a bumper couldn't have been added, but unlikely. Adam, not Palmer.
 
I'm not that familiar with Adam, but the joint and pin resemble my Gandy cue.
The pin doesn't resemble any of my Palmer cues, even one with the same sticker, and I haven't seen a Gandy with split MOP diamonds
unless they were added.
Maybe it's an Adam / Palmer conversion cue, and the seller isn't aware of the rarity>>:idea2:
Don't tell him, I want this cue.
If I can rob it for a cool $999 I'll be lucky.
 
WildWing said:
It's an Adam El Dorado, as reported by Tate. It is admittedy similar to the Palmer Model 3 from their frist catalog, but there are important differences. First, the Palmer Model 3 was made with a rosewood or similar Titlist forearm, no inlays, not what is pictured. Second, the nickel rings in the Palmer 3 are much thinner in the butt plate. Third, there is no bumper in the Palmer model 3, as shown in the ebay pictures of this cue. Not that a bumper couldn't have been added, but unlikely. Adam, not Palmer.
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The R/A cues also had no bumpers. But people generally assume they are missing and add one.
 
ask paul if his reworked the cue.paul would not fake a cue. hhes one of the best out here.
 
dnixon said:
ask paul if his reworked the cue.paul would not fake a cue. hhes one of the best out here.
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He may or may not have refinished it, I have no idea. But If he did he may have been told and believed it to be a Palmer. Thus making it as "perfect" as possible by adding the sticker??. Either way, some one has either decided to make it a Palmer or just flat believed it it was one.
Adam cues get mistaken for all kinds of things.
 
jayman said:
The R/A cues also had no bumpers. But people generally assume they are missing and add one.
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Yep, good point about the R/A cues. As I recall the Palmer cues from that era, they didn't have that much recess into the butt plate before getting to the weight screw, and it would take some drilling/reaming to get a bumper to fit. Therefore I thought it was more improbable for a Palmer of that era to have a bumper. Not sure how easy it was to get a bumper in the R/A, though obviously it was done.
 
WildWing said:
Yep, good point about the R/A cues. As I recall the Palmer cues from that era, they didn't have that much recess into the butt plate before getting to the weight screw, and it would take some drilling/reaming to get a bumper to fit. Therefore I thought it was more improbable for a Palmer of that era to have a bumper. Not sure how easy it was to get a bumper in the R/A, though obviously it was done.
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The push in style Adam bumpers used in the second generation 70's cues fit them perfectly. I put them in my R/A cues for a little added protection.
 
Palmer Q or ??

First let me say that I did refinish the cue in question and believed it to be a Palmer to which I added an original vintage ink transfer. I do agree that the pin and several other "details" gave me cause to reflect on exactly when this cue would have been constructed - but knowing that Palmer had been sold and cues were coming out of Japan under the Palmer name I sincerely believe that this cue was one of those. I do not "counterfeit" cues - I do however, attempt to restore vintage cues to original to the best of my ability - so - IF, in fact, this is a cue produced by another company my adding the transfer was an oversight - there was never an attempt to deceive anyone. The first time anyone goes out on the limb and says that they know EVERYTHING about a particular item is the day when someone else shows up to prove them wrong. So with all that said I will leave it to the "experts" on this one. pfd
 
Paul I would contact the seller and have him or her take your name out of the Ebay sale thread....and inform them that there was a mistake possibly and the cue might not be a Palmer before they commit a mistake of fraud by selling it as one........alot of arm chair Lawyers out there looking for a reason to linch someone for there honest mistakes or not..........OTB:smile:



pfd studios said:
First let me say that I did refinish the cue in question and believed it to be a Palmer to which I added an original vintage ink transfer. I do agree that the pin and several other "details" gave me cause to reflect on exactly when this cue would have been constructed - but knowing that Palmer had been sold and cues were coming out of Japan under the Palmer name I sincerely believe that this cue was one of those. I do not "counterfeit" cues - I do however, attempt to restore vintage cues to original to the best of my ability - so - IF, in fact, this is a cue produced by another company my adding the transfer was an oversight - there was never an attempt to deceive anyone. The first time anyone goes out on the limb and says that they know EVERYTHING about a particular item is the day when someone else shows up to prove them wrong. So with all that said I will leave it to the "experts" on this one. pfd
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pfd studios said:
First let me say that I did refinish the cue in question and believed it to be a Palmer to which I added an original vintage ink transfer. I do agree that the pin and several other "details" gave me cause to reflect on exactly when this cue would have been constructed - but knowing that Palmer had been sold and cues were coming out of Japan under the Palmer name I sincerely believe that this cue was one of those. I do not "counterfeit" cues - I do however, attempt to restore vintage cues to original to the best of my ability - so - IF, in fact, this is a cue produced by another company my adding the transfer was an oversight - there was never an attempt to deceive anyone. The first time anyone goes out on the limb and says that they know EVERYTHING about a particular item is the day when someone else shows up to prove them wrong. So with all that said I will leave it to the "experts" on this one. pfd
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I pretty much figured that it was a case of mistaken identity. The clue that first made me wonder was the ultra sharp joint screw, which is a trademark of the early 1970's Adam cues. Palmer also did not use thick aluminum rings like the butt on this cue. The Adam cues are not exactly copies of other designs, but they took elements from classic designs and incorporated them into their own.

There is some confusion about the Adam/Palmer connection. Adam made the Palmer PM and PB line cues in the late 1970's through the 1980's, to Palmer's specs and design on a contract basis. They also made some of the full splice forearms Palmer used in the 3rd catalog cues (the short splices were made in Palmer's shop or by Gus Szamboti) but those cues were built in the Palmer shop.

In the mid to late 1980's Adam made some prototype cues with the Palmer name but they clearly had Adam designs, joint rings etc. and they had an updated look.

Anyway, I hope the seller on ebay corrects this mistake.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
I pretty much figured that it was a case of mistaken identity. The clue that first made me wonder was the ultra sharp joint screw, which is a trademark of the early 1970's Adam cues. Palmer also did not use thick aluminum rings like the butt on this cue. The Adam cues are not exactly copies of other designs, but they took elements from classic designs and incorporated them into their own.

There is some confusion about the Adam/Palmer connection. Adam made the Palmer PM and PB line cues in the late 1970's through the 1980's, to Palmer's specs and design on a contract basis. They also made some of the full splice forearms Palmer used in the 3rd catalog cues (the short splices were made in Palmer's shop or by Gus Szamboti) but those cues were built in the Palmer shop.

In the mid to late 1980's Adam made some prototype cues with the Palmer name but they clearly had Adam designs, joint rings etc. and they had an updated look.

Anyway, I hope the seller on ebay corrects this mistake.

Chris
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I contacted the seller, He was really quite receptive to the information, and has taken the auction down for the time being. He seemed to be one of the rare people on Ebay that prefers to keep it honest and accurate.
 
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