warning NPR but I am MAD

Jack Madden

Jack Madden

John Madden Cues
Silver Member
Since this will be read by more, I am posting this here --- I am mad, this shouldn't be happening in this country - where did we get these stupid people:mad: If you have followed any of my blabbering you know I live in Grizzly Bear country --- in fact my house is in the direct line of Grizzly Alley (where the bears come down from the mountain to the wild apple & plum trees and my neighbors corn field). See them every year. They occassionally bother some of the neighbors livestock but normally just go from point a to point b looking for something to eat. When I have run into them (several times hiking and 4 wheeling) I just turn around and head for home. This is usually the time to see them ---- had 3 about 60 feet away from the house 4-5 nights ago (went out on the porch about 1:30 am with flash light, decided it was best to come in, the dog stuck it out in his dog house:rolleyes: ). This morning my sister in law who lives down the road, drove out her drive on the country road down by the creek bottom and discovered a dead griz. Fish & Game said it had been shot ---- AND THE FRONT PAWS HAD BEEN CUT OFF --- for the claws:mad: Who in their right mind would kill a Griz for its claws - someone who wants a trophy or will be selling their trophy. This community is upset - such a senseless killing (even the ranchers who lose a calf or two to the griz are mad). Sorry for the rant ---- if you see them in the wild, you would see what a magnificant animal they are ---- shot 'em if you are defending yourself(which can happen) but not for their claws.
 
There's Always An Alternative

I feel your pain, Jack. It takes a heartless bastard to do that simply for bear claws.

On a lighter note, I got these 10 wonderfully framed long fingernails from my second wife and I didn't have to shoot her.
My trusty pliers did the trick just fine.....
Doug
 
Jack, sounds to me like someone who doesn't know what he is doing and could care less. Besides, I've always heard the valuable part is the gall bladder.

Here we have pen raised inbred wolves turned lose and major penalites for killing one. Seems to me a native animal like your grizzly ought to have more local support, and apparently does from reading your post.
 
powderburner said:
Jack, sounds to me like someone who doesn't know what he is doing and could care less. Besides, I've always heard the valuable part is the gall bladder.

Here we have pen raised inbred wolves turned lose and major penalites for killing one. Seems to me a native animal like your grizzly ought to have more local support, and apparently does from reading your post.
Click to expand...

Fish & Game think they were scared off and not done. Yes, there is support for the griz. You should see all the cars out on the country road towards evening hoping to see a griz :) --- a couple years ago, several would park in the neighbors corn field waiting to see the griz come for their evening meal. We have a problem with wolves about 25 miles away. My understanding is the problem with the wolves is they will learn to attack cows (easier to kill a cow - it doesn't run as fast as elk - which is what the experts want the wolves to eat) - but what is happening here is they don't kill the cow they tear it up (basically eat on the live animal). Which upsets the ranchers more than a cow killed by a griz. (I mean one of my neighbors who raises black Angus for the beef market - even names some of his cows - "Muffin", "Sugar", etc - so a dead "Muffin" is upsetting but a suffering "Muffin" is much worse.). At least the griz kill it before they eat it. But the ranchers aren't going out and killing the wolves either.
 
there's a big yoddle going on in scandinavia about wolves in particular. the biggest echo comes from moose hunters who's dogs on occasion (say 10 dogs killed/yr out of 10K) are ridden by the grey. moose is greys main feed. man kills moose these days so they won't eat young tree tops. greys kill dogs for taking their life stock and out of rare instinct. man shoot wolf to save dog (actually, they shoot them any time they can because they are a threat). how can man ride natures way, especially when putting their lovely pets in way of nature?

we as a people have lost contact with nature many moons ago. it's heartbreaking and it's killing us.

oh beer, gotta go
 
Jack, that kind of stuff makes me as mad as hell. Personally I'd like to return the gesture to the bastards that did it.
 
Jack Madden said:
Fish & Game think they were scared off and not done. Yes, there is support for the griz. You should see all the cars out on the country road towards evening hoping to see a griz :) --- a couple years ago, several would park in the neighbors corn field waiting to see the griz come for their evening meal. We have a problem with wolves about 25 miles away. My understanding is the problem with the wolves is they will learn to attack cows (easier to kill a cow - it doesn't run as fast as elk - which is what the experts want the wolves to eat) - but what is happening here is they don't kill the cow they tear it up (basically eat on the live animal). Which upsets the ranchers more than a cow killed by a griz. (I mean one of my neighbors who raises black Angus for the beef market - even names some of his cows - "Muffin", "Sugar", etc - so a dead "Muffin" is upsetting but a suffering "Muffin" is much worse.). At least the griz kill it before they eat it. But the ranchers aren't going out and killing the wolves either.
Click to expand...

I've got relatives up in Polebridge, and the wolves hang out right on their property half the time. They come all the way up to their porch.

Killing Grizzlies sucks. I have spent a lot of time trying to see one in the wild, but haven't yet. Wish I could just head over there right now...but those ramblin' days are long gone.

Cheers,
RC
 
Hi Jack;

As an avid hunter, sportsman and conservationist, I find this type of killing criminal and wish they would get caught. It is not hunters and sportsman that do this, but some people seem to equate the two. Its some fool looking for a trophy or someone trying to get a commercial item at the cost of a magnificient animal.

This kind of incident makes us all look bad.

Sixpack;

Wolves will learn to hunt in packs and will soon be taking down the cattle if there isn't enough wild game. If they are around homes and people, they will loose the fear of humans and could become very dangers to anyone in the wrong place. One of the most dangerous animals in some areas where I have hunted are packs of dogs, they learn to hunt and kill, and they are not afraid of people. Best if you scare the s##t out of them. IMHO
 
Around here we have a program called TIPs, or Turn In Poachers. Hopefully there is a similar program in the US. The penalties for this kind of offense should be stiff, they will take your car and boat and any vehicle the poacher has if caught here, and that's just the start of the troubles. Let's hope that these cowards get caught and loose everything they have.

Dave
 
It's interesting how different parts of the country have different problems. In your area attacks on bears are evidently a big problem. I just moved out of St Louis, named the most dangerous city in the United States in 2006. I lived in North St Louis which is the most violent part of the city. Within the past year my bother and Mother both had their cars stolen from their driveways. In fact the police write you a ticket if you warm up your car on a cold day because it is one of the favorite ways for car thieves to steal cars. Within the past 6 months I got jumped by some thugs who were trying to rob my while I was jogging, I had to fight a rottweiler while I was jogging and a couple weeks after I moved out of my house, which is still for sale, somebody broke in and stole all the copper out of the house. The thugs went to jail, the dog went to the dog pound, they never caught the copper thieves as far as I know. When my niece was a freshman in high school a few years ago her best friend was raped and drowned in a toilet in the girls bathroom at school. Crime is so out of control that 99 per cent of it doesn't even make the news.

When I try to tell people how crazy it is most of them don't believe me.

I hope they catch whoever is shooting your bears, and I hope they confine their activities to bears and not people.
 
Delicacy?

In the late 1980s, U.S. and Canadian park rangers began finding carcasses of American black bears, missing only their gallbladders and paws or claws. It was not until months that law enforcement officials began to realize the nature and scope of the problem: American black bears were slaughtered to meet demand in South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and China. In these countries, the bile from bear gallbladders is considered to have great medicinal qualities. In China and elsewhere, bear paws are a gourmet delicacy, often used in soups.
The Asian bear population is declining rapidly. All five of Asia's bear species are so rare that captive animals are being farmed for their valued parts and their bile. Overall, all but two of the world's eight bear species are in danger of extinction. As Asia increases its level of economic development, the demand for bear parts will most likely increase. In fact, officials from the World Wildlife Fund claim that the demand for bear parts is every bit as severe as the demand for elephant ivory.

Augmenting the problem is the fact that international trade in American black bear parts is largely unrestricted because eight states -- New York, Virginia, West Virginia, Idaho, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine -- allow the sale and export of the bear parts. Conservationists say that because it is impossible to tell an American black bear's gallbladder from that of a protected species, traders can claim the organs come from legally hunted animals. It is these eight states in which sale and export of black bear parts are allowed that was causing the poaching problem.

Conservationists and wildlife organizations are beginning to approach the problem. At the 1992 annual meeting of the 113 signatory nations to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora bears were listed in Appendix II, the category in which regulated trade is permitted.

Under the existing CITES treaty, trade is outlawed in all Asian bear species except the brown bear. Conservationists have also found an ally in Congresswoman Helen Bentley of Maryland who introduced H.R. 4427 of Representatives which would outlaw the export of bear body parts.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service objected to the CITES proposal on the grounds that U.S. black bear populations were healthy; furthermore, implementing the legislation would be too costly and that American black bears would be better protected by interstate cooperation rather than by international treaty. International outrage by governments and private groups over bear poaching forced the Chinese to seek alternatives. Thus, the Chinese have begun to "farm" bears and "milk" the bile from them. Most of these bears come from the Yunan province in China, with about 8,000 currently in captivity.

The World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) and the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW) launched campaigns against the trade in bear gall bladders, claws, and paws. However, the farming, permissible under Annex II of CITES, circumvented their efforts. Now these groups focus on the horrid conditions under which these animals are kept and the threat to extinction that the capture of wild bears holds for farming purposes.

The IFAW visit to the Zhuhai bear farm in 1993 (located near Hong Kong in China) sparked the international movement against the bear farms. The bears have tubes inserted into their stomachs in order to extract bile several times a day. While these bears are not immediately killed as in poaching, their lifetimes are still rather short. The bears are kept in cages so small that the animals must put their arms and legs outside of the cages. One IFAW official noted that "many of the bears...appear sick with their faces covered in scabs...several of the larger animals have one paw missing." There is a restaurant just outside the farm that sells paws; customers tour the farm to select their meal.

Bear farms are nonetheless a booming industry in China, with over 500 farms housing over 8,000 bears. China is now a major exporter of bile. The bile is a key ingredient in Chinese medicine, part of over 80 types of prescriptions that cure everything from cancer to athlete's foot. Few have any documented medical purpose. The bile is taken directly with wine, or mixed with Chinese herbs and rubbed directly on the skin. These prescriptions are often sought in lieu of proven medical treatments for maladies.

In June 1993 IFAW launched a campaign to save the bears. It encouraged its 1.3 million members to write letters to China's embassies protesting the practice. IFAW produced a videotape documenting the practice and offered to resettle the bears. On a site visit to the Jiang Li, China bear farm by Jim Lee in August 1994, there were approximately 500 bears kept on the premises along with one Amur tiger. About 50 bears were kept in one large open pen, with the others held in solitary cages for milking the bile or for breeding and cubs held in a nursery. Next door, a shop sold bear wine, bear potions, and bear powder products. The shop was located inside a government tourist bureau.

The Trade Records Analysis of Flora and Fauna in Commerce (TRAFFIC), a watchdog initiative was formed through the joining of World Wildlife Fund and The World Conservation Union. This was the powerful joint force involved in getting the black bear added to the CITES list. The WWF and the WCU continue to pressure the Canadian government for tighter crackdowns on offenders of the Canadian Wild Animal and Plant Protection Act. Recently, Canada's Bear Watch spokesperson, David Baker, called for increased fines and penalties for conviction of trade in illegal parts of British Columbian black bears.

Experts argue that while the British Colombian bear population remains at a healthy 300,000 to 400,000 now, up to 40,000 bears are illegally poached per year. In this same article, Mark Hayden stated, "The penalties (a maximum fine of 10,000 Canadian dollars or 7,500 U.S. dollars) are only enough to deter small-time poachers. We need penalties to deter the hard core." Conservationist organizations throughout British Columbia continue to press for harsher fines and even the institution of jail sentences for traffickers in illegal bear parts.
 
Jack I'm sorry...

My wife told me to come up to your town if I wanted some yummy bear claws, but turns out they were chewy and I didn't like the hair. I think I'll stick to Dunkin Donut's bear claws :-)






j/k, it's a shame
 
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