Warning! Paypal pmt w/"unconfirmed shipping address" to Singapore

[Inevitz]

I used that exact same refund button today Mick.

Buyer sent me $400, ebay kept their $15 fee (almost 4%). Later this afternoon I refunded the money, $385 after the fee. The buyer actually received only $370 after they deducted another $14.90 or 4%.. charging 8% in an afternoon is pretty lucrative biz.!

Whew! I feel better now.....

Look you might pretty well feel better now but take a look IVE PERSONALLY LOST OUT ON $30 TO YOU IT MIGHT BE NOTHING, BUT TO ME ITS SOMETHING THAT IVE LOST FOR NO REASON. YOU DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT UNCONFIRMED ADDRESS in your thread and in any of the PM to me until i have made payment to you before you started this problem. I just started out in this forum therefore small amount of post etc doesn't mean i'm out to cheat you. if you are really so uncomfortable state that you prefer confirmed etc in all your sales. And most people only ask for VERIFIED paypal account which my account was.

 

[mullyman]

Last I remember Paypal has certain countries where they "do not (or can't) confirm" an address.
To reduce sellers risk - No confirmed address = no ship regardless of country.
I'd agree to ask for payment by certified funds or MO.

I will agree and disagree with this. Up until about 2 years ago Japanese addresses weren't confirmed with Paypal and it sucked all kinds of ass for me. I have a spotless record on e-bay with close to 100 in my feedback file so that got me through but it sure was a pain in the ass having to write out my life story for someone just because my address wasn't confirmed.
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

Don't take PayPal on overseas shipments!!! It's not worth the risk!!! The safest method of payment for the seller, from overseas buyers, is Western Union Money Transfer. You can simply pick up your cash at a location near you. Then ship the cue. No way you can get screwed.

That's just wrong, man. There are plenty of good people living overseas and seeing as how I am one of them I take it as a personal offense. Personally, I think you run the same risk in the US that you do shipping overseas. And look at it like this, what are you gonna do either way? If it's a criminal in the US you're still out a cue. What can you do? You'll never find them.
MULLY

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I dunno but I suggest that you personally call the buyer and ask for further reference. I know it's difficult to sell an expensive cue to an overseas customer, likewise to an overseas customer who wants to buy an imported cue which is not being sold in their local market. I say give the buyer a chance and at the same time, be careful and study the buyer as well.

if I may share my experience, I'm an overseas buyer myself and would gladly suffice any info or inquiry that the seller would ask for inorder to validate or authenticate my identity. I do sometimes change my shipping address when I want an item sent to someone as a gift or just plainly tell the seller to send the item to the location which I had specified. what I'm saying is, there are buyers that are honest and dishonest or plain scammers, and it's up to you on how you would determine which is which and deal your transaction with. business is a risk and playing safe just tells your unwillingness to do business.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Don't take PayPal on overseas shipments!!! It's not worth the risk!!! The safest method of payment for the seller, from overseas buyers, is Western Union Money Transfer. You can simply pick up your cash at a location near you. Then ship the cue. No way you can get screwed.

it is safe for the seller, but how about the buyer? is it worth the risk for the buyer?

I would suggest that the seller should make some further inquiry if he is serious on doing business.

 

[Inevitz]

Yes i did try to explain to the Seller everything i even proposed to him i will show him my identification card etc to prove my address blah blah as my name and address from my ID will match my paypal account etc but what he did was just canceled the payment and refunded me the amount NOT in full. I understand the 4% part but my main issue is he canceled the order without trying much to communicate with me. So literally there is nothing much i can do.

 

[torqiet]

it is safe for the seller, but how about the buyer? is it worth the risk for the buyer?

I would suggest that the seller should make some further inquiry if he is serious on doing business.

exactly.

Recently after receiving his Paypal pmt, Eric shipped a nice Scruggs to an "unconfirmed address" buyer in SE Asia . Five weeks later his account was charged back the entire payment due to the buyer using a stolen paypal account - He's now out his $1,400 Scruggs with apparently no recourse.

selective judgement-this could have happened anywhere as long as the person had a stolen account, you chose to think that the main cause was due to the fact of the buying having an unconfirmed address in SE asia.

Great that everyone is looking out for each other, but it may be prudent to remember the majority of us are pool enthusiasts who want to have a chance to buy/sell and discuss about cues. Why not try and get this deal done?

In this case maybe a probable solution would be to offer to split the cost of the paypal fees? Then Inevitz can send abit less $$ with the MO or any other mode of payment they agree upon. So both take some responsibility, since Jigger had (legit) concerns at the last min but it left Inevitz with a $30 deficit for nothing(how he would feel), i would say a case of miscommunication but a good chance for both parties to show they are legit.

 

[mullyman]

it is safe for the seller, but how about the buyer? is it worth the risk for the buyer?

That is a great point right there. I know I'm as honest as they come and it scares me a little sending my hard earned cash to someone I don't know. If they don't come through on their end I'm screwed out of my cash.
MULLY

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Yes i did try to explain to the Seller everything i even proposed to him i will show him my identification card etc to prove my address blah blah as my name and address from my ID will match my paypal account etc but what he did was just canceled the payment and refunded me the amount NOT in full. I understand the 4% part but my main issue is he canceled the order without trying much to communicate with me. So literally there is nothing much i can do.

funny you had mentioned this, I had almost the same proposal to a seller before. except that I said that I would be glad to fax any proof of my existence, call that number back, provide the office number where I am working and call me personally to be sure, and website as well for reference.

anyway, that proposal of mine made him confident and convinced that I was for real and didn't find it necessary for me to do such thing. he said that my verified paypal transaction was enough. actually the seller found my proposal funny and created a happy atmosphere that his apprehension disappeared.

as for your dilemma, I would also be disappointed if that thing happens to me. I know the burden of being a new member in the forum and certain longtime members would keep an eye on you. of course you can't blame them since a lot of transactions here had gone sour in the past and even in the present. but atleast, I think you are entitled to be given a chance to prove yourself and transact with others.

I looked at your profile (recently registered) and you already have some previous transaction already and you have a very good feedback on you. I've been here for more than a year now and yet I haven't purchased anything yet.

and I wouldn't be surprised if some members would be confident to transact with me due to the fact of tenure. I guess for some members here, you need to earn your tenure first.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

selective judgement-this could have happened anywhere as long as the person had a stolen account, you chose to think that the main cause was due to the fact of the buying having an unconfirmed address in SE asia.

Great that everyone is looking out for each other, but it may be prudent to remember the majority of us are pool enthusiasts who want to have a chance to buy/sell and discuss about cues. Why not try and get this deal done?

In this case maybe a probable solution would be to offer to split the cost of the paypal fees? Then Inevitz can send abit less $$ with the MO or any other mode of payment they agree upon. So both take some responsibility, since Jigger had (legit) concerns at the last min but it left Inevitz with a $30 deficit for nothing(how he would feel), i would say a case of miscommunication but a good chance for both parties to show they are legit.

I couldn't agree more. let's not be biased about our judgement. just because the buyer is not from the U.S., would necessarily mean he's a scam artist. scamming is not isolated alone from the outside, it's prevalent everywhere. If I know, there are a lot more scamming done by people from within the U.S. than from people outside the U.S.

 

[gobrian77]

It's not easy to establish yourself as a legitimate when you're overseas- PayPal addresses cannot be confirmed in many countries (including here in Thailand)- fortunately some good people were willing to make some initial sales to me, and I think most sellers would be willing to ship me a cue (certainly not all) with my current iTrader record.

It's a shame that a few bad apples cause the decent folks trouble.

 

[BlowFish]

It's not easy to establish yourself as a legitimate when you're overseas- PayPal addresses cannot be confirmed in many countries (including here in Thailand)- fortunately some good people were willing to make some initial sales to me, and I think most sellers would be willing to ship me a cue (certainly not all) with my current iTrader record.

It's a shame that a few bad apples cause the decent folks trouble.

I totally agree with you Bro. Very few of us (from Overseas) have established a reputation around AZB, hence we are better off than others. It was hard in the beggining and I really got pissed off. I think I'm good now with most, but still some won't deal with me. Anyway's, it's their lost not mine.

 

[gobrian77]

I totally agree with you Bro. Very few of us (from Overseas) have established a reputation around AZB, hence we are better off than others. It was hard in the beggining and I really got pissed off. I think I'm good now with most, but still some won't deal with me. Anyway's, it's their lost not mine.

Yep- we're two of the good ones- some (like me) might even say the BEST ones.

 

[Double-Dave]

I used that exact same refund button today Mick.

Buyer sent me $400, ebay kept their $15 fee (almost 4%). Later this afternoon I refunded the money, $385 after the fee. The buyer actually received only $370 after they deducted another $14.90 or 4%.. charging 8% in an afternoon is pretty lucrative biz.!

Whew! I feel better now.....

I don't quite follow this. Ebay does not take their fee out of the paypal payment, they send you a seperate bill once a month for that.
How you got from $400 to $370 I don't know, but as has been mentioned here refunds are free of any charges so the buyer should have gotten $400.
Now if the payment was for an ebay item, then you still have the ebay fees, you can get those back aswell.

 

[Inevitz]

I don't quite follow this. Ebay does not take their fee out of the paypal payment, they send you a seperate bill once a month for that.
How you got from $400 to $370 I don't know, but as has been mentioned here refunds are free of any charges so the buyer should have gotten $400.
Now if the payment was for an ebay item, then you still have the ebay fees, you can get those back aswell.

Well I made the payment via paypal only and was bought from his post on az wanted and for sale. I paid him immediately $400 and now have only gotten back the amount as stated above.

 

[Dartman]

An alternative to Paypal

Besides accepting Visa and MC we also offered Paypal until late last year when we dumped it and started
offering Google Checkout (GC) . Pretty much the same scenario as Paypal but we especially like the payment
guarantee terms - one of which is that payment is guaranteed if the order is shipped to the address indicated by GC.

If you only take Paypal you might look into Google Checkout. No problems with it whatsoever for us so far.
http://checkout.google.com/support/sell/bin/answer.py?answer=42863&hl=en_US&ctx=sibling

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[Jigger]

Look you might pretty well feel better now but take a look IVE PERSONALLY LOST OUT ON $30 TO YOU IT MIGHT BE NOTHING, BUT TO ME ITS SOMETHING THAT IVE LOST FOR NO REASON. YOU DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT UNCONFIRMED ADDRESS in your thread and in any of the PM to me until i have made payment to you before you started this problem. I just started out in this forum therefore small amount of post etc doesn't mean i'm out to cheat you. if you are really so uncomfortable state that you prefer confirmed etc in all your sales. And most people only ask for VERIFIED paypal account which my account was.

Before your Paypal pmt, I clearly stated twice that I would only ship to a "confirmed address". I can post those PMs here if you like.

Tell you what.... deduct the $30 in Paypal fees, send a money order and I'll gladly ship the cue promptly. Would that be fair?

 

[Jigger]

I don't quite follow this. Ebay does not take their fee out of the paypal payment, they send you a seperate bill once a month for that.
How you got from $400 to $370 I don't know, but as has been mentioned here refunds are free of any charges so the buyer should have gotten $400.
Now if the payment was for an ebay item, then you still have the ebay fees, you can get those back aswell.

Sorry Double Dave, I mistakenly used Ebay for Paypal. My bad. Have edited that post to fix.

 

[Dartman]

... Tell you what.... deduct the $30 in Paypal fees, send a money order and I'll gladly ship the cue promptly. Would that be fair?

Correct me if I'm wrong but since when does Paypal charge a fee to a buyer making a payment?
If the transaction is cancelled/refunded by seller then the buyer should get a 100% refund of the payment.
I'd think to check into this before giving Paypal fee credits.
JMO

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[Bigjohn]

it is safe for the seller, but how about the buyer? is it worth the risk for the buyer?

I would suggest that the seller should make some further inquiry if he is serious on doing business.

Been screwed bad once on an overseas shipment. Unless I know the person, it's Western Union. You only have to hit me once with a 2x4.