Warped shaft questions

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WestElder

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I have an old Z2 shaft that has about 1mm+ warp in it. It's enough that I can feel the shaft flex differently depending on the English I use and the rotation of the shaft relative to the cue ball when I strike it. Couple of questions:

1. Does the warp materially affect the trajectory of the cue ball?

2. Is the warp fixable? Is there something I can do myself to straighten it out?

Thanks, Dave
 
WestElder said:
I have an old Z2 shaft that has about 1mm+ warp in it. It's enough that I can feel the shaft flex differently depending on the English I use and the rotation of the shaft relative to the cue ball when I strike it. Couple of questions:

1. Does the warp materially affect the trajectory of the cue ball?

2. Is the warp fixable? Is there something I can do myself to straighten it out?

Thanks, Dave
Click to expand...

1MM is tolerable on a cue YOU use all the time.
Here is how you use it.

Carefully, as in take your time, find the exact bend trajectory. Now, again carefully, find the up and down position of the warp. Mark the ferrule at the top of the warp so the warp will be up and down nstead of side to side or, worse, at an odd angle.

Now, whenever you take a shot, position the ferrule mark directly up and you will adjust to it.
It will affect your forward and back spin but not deflect the angle of the cue ball.

As for straightening a cue.... good luck. Wood has a memory and likes to ge back to what it remembers.
 
DoubleD said:
You don't feel the shaft flex differently. You have convinced yourself that you feel the shaft flex differently.

Warps in a shaft don't matter unless you make them matter.

dld
Click to expand...

BINGO!!!!!

WestElder,
Did you "feel" the difference in shaft flex, wonder what was going on, inspect your shaft, and discover it was oh-so-slightly warped? Or, did you discover your shaft was oh-so-slightly warped, then started to "feel" the difference in flex?
 
Inferno said:
1MM is tolerable on a cue YOU use all the time.
Here is how you use it.

Carefully, as in take your time, find the exact bend trajectory. Now, again carefully, find the up and down position of the warp. Mark the ferrule at the top of the warp so the warp will be up and down nstead of side to side or, worse, at an odd angle.

Now, whenever you take a shot, position the ferrule mark directly up and you will adjust to it.
It will affect your forward and back spin but not deflect the angle of the cue ball.

As for straightening a cue.... good luck. Wood has a memory and likes to ge back to what it remembers.
Click to expand...

1mm warp isn't enough to throw off all but the absolute best handful of pros in the world. Hell, my original OB1 I bought from Royce in Vegas the first year he was selling them (what's that... 6 years?) has about 1/8" of warp (over 3x the warp of WestElder), and I used it to become a National Master 2 years ago. And I knew it was warped the whole time. And I didn't care. And I didn't mark the ferrule at the high spot of the warp. I just chalked the tip, and hit the cue ball. It felt fine to me.
 
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Wow. My only quibble with the above comments, which are damned consistent, is that I have another Z2 which is not warped and has a different feel to it. I would have assumed that all Z2's are alike, and the warp is the only difference I can see between them.
 
DoubleD said:
People used to look out over the earth and see a flat landscape. We all know how that turned out.

I once started getting drowsy in my father's garage when I was tuning my truck. I couldn't see the carbon monoxide, so I assumed everything was okay.

dld
Click to expand...

Thanks, that is indeed helpful ;(
 
WestElder said:
Wow. My only quibble with the above comments, which are damned consistent, is that I have another Z2 which is not warped and has a different feel to it. I would have assumed that all Z2's are alike, and the warp is the only difference I can see between them.
Click to expand...

Valid point. I, too, would assume two Z2's would be incredibly consistent. But there's still a few things that could be going on:
(1) Do they have the same tip? Out of the same box of tips? Made out of the same slab of animal hide at the tip factory on the same day? Installed by the same cue guy at the same time using the same kind of glue?
(2)Were they made at the same time? Using the same blanks of wood?

All these tiny differences could add up to the difference in hits.

However, I truly believe it's a case of "this shaft is warped so it feel different". The mind can be a powerful thing. To check, clean both shafts very well so you can't tell one from the other. Have the same exact brand of tip installed on both shafts. Do a blind test on both shafts. You'll have to have a friend hide them and/or hand one to you at a time. Shoot 25 shots with each. Tell him which shaft you think is warped. Do the blind test a couple more times. If you can pick the warped shaft out EVERY SINGLE blind test, then you have an incredibly fine-tuned feel for your shafts. If not, it's all in your head.

Good luck!
 
jschelin99 said:
However, I truly believe it's a case of "this shaft is warped so it feel different". The mind can be a powerful thing. To check, clean both shafts very well so you can't tell one from the other. Have the same exact brand of tip installed on both shafts. Do a blind test on both shafts. You'll have to have a friend hide them and/or hand one to you at a time. Shoot 25 shots with each. Tell him which shaft you think is warped. Do the blind test a couple more times. If you can pick the warped shaft out EVERY SINGLE blind test, then you have an incredibly fine-tuned feel for your shafts. If not, it's all in your head.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Interesting that you say that, because I did almost exactly that before writing my questions here. The tips (Everest) on both cues were worn and one had separated, so I replaced both on Saturday with Kamui Medium. I blind-tested both of them on my table at home for about an hour, switching back and forth on the same butt. One felt solid on all shots, but the other would occasionally vibrate on a hard hit. It was always the warped one.

If the warp isn't a factor, is it possible that there is a small break on the shaft? Do Z2's have a tendency for micro-cracks or splice separation?
 
I sent you a PM re fixing it. In the end, should you decide not to keep it, PM me and I will consider buying it if you are not satisfied with the results.
Thanks.
 
Thanks. It's my backup so I'll suffer along with it. I never thought I would get used to shooting a Z2 when I first started playing with it years ago, but with these cues out of action I tried a 314 and was uncomfortable. I'm not a pro and am not presenting myself as one, but I play at an "A" level when I'm feeling good. I was about 2 balls off with the 314.
 
Me neither when I got my first Z. I usually play with anything 12.5 and under. So when I first tried the Z, I felt the same way but got used to it.

Now, my 314 even feels a tad big for me.
 
WestElder said:
I have an old Z2 shaft that has about 1mm+ warp in it. It's enough that I can feel the shaft flex differently depending on the English I use and the rotation of the shaft relative to the cue ball when I strike it. Couple of questions:

1. Does the warp materially affect the trajectory of the cue ball?

2. Is the warp fixable? Is there something I can do myself to straighten it out?

Thanks, Dave
Click to expand...

I'm very particular with my cues and shafts and if I were in your position this is what i'd do. It sounds like you aren't satisfied with the way the slightly warped Z shaft plays compared to your other Z shaft and from my experience owning many cues from many different cue makers warped shafts can't be fixed. If the warp bothers you as you describe try to sell it for what you can get (at a discount due to the slight warp) and take what you get out of the shaft and add enough money to that to buy you a new Z to go with your good shaft and you won't have to worry about this again.

This is how i'd handle this situation, but it's just a suggestion.

James
 
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