Was pool better 50 years ago?

[ShootingArts]

I am reluctant to broach the subject, and I certainly do not mean to be negative or derisive, but here goes . . . I came up and live in a very straight pool world, perhaps I should more accurately say "in a very straight world". The world has certainly changed, but not my pool hall world. I don't ever recall seeing an identifiable or "out" gay person in a pool hall, and I cannot come up with a reason except the pool world is so macho it is incapable of tolerating gay folks. What do y'all think?

Who owns the best pool hall this side of anywhere and contributes greatly to the pool world? He came out with his eighth post on AZB. I had a huge laugh when he said "Some chase a hole, some chase a pole. What's the difference?" Um, ah, there is difference! He and his partner are good guys and don't hide their sexuality or advertise it. No big deal. Means there are two less hardlegs chasing the same lady I am!

Most players in their prime 50 years ago can’t remember 50 years ago

Tim, you made me laugh out loud, none of that LOL BS, a real guffaw!!



On to the OP's question: Pool has flattened out over the years for better or worse. Used to be there were a few monsters, a few below them, a few more steps until you got to the bangers and even the bangers would play for a beer or drink in a bar. A low B player that knew how to move could grind out a living playing pool. Damned few rode around in new Caddies and most picked out their cars by how comfortable the back seat was because they would be sleeping in it sometimes! For the most part the players and the pool flamboyant.

I played dull get it done pool. No more often than women came in to watch their men play it still wasn't unusual for them to come up to me after a session with tears in their eyes or outright crying, "that wasn't fair, you got all of the easy shots!" "Yes ma'am it goes that way sometimes." I was a boring player to watch, I even called my play chopping wood. I would have fit right in with today's players.

Now when I watch players of today they have even went past my game chopping wood. Years ago the ladies played more safeties than the men with the men more inclined to shoot for it. Today, the men are even more inclined to play safety than the ladies. It sucks as a spectator sport, plain damned dull. Pool will never get spectators that aren't serious players first with today's style. To be blunt, it is dull dull dull!

The overall skill level has soared with today's style and worldwide pool of players. Never going to be a spectator sport without changing the game or the lack of interaction between the players though. There is a plant nursery around here that specializes in bamboo. They have a row of chairs so that people can watch a fast growing variety grow. If I had the choice between today's pool and watching the bamboo, in nice weather they could put my name on a front row seat watching the bamboo grow! Still fun to play, less of a spectator sport than ever! Did I mention pool is dull to watch today???(grin)

I like watching snooker far better. Excellent production values and the players can miss almost any shot.

Hu

 

[mikemosconi]

Watching pool and going to pool halls was absolutely more fun and entertaining in the 70s and 80s. The quality of play cannot be compared though. Today's top players would slaughter yesteryears players. In my head, yesteryears players were like pool gods. Watching the old recordings of them tells a different story though.

Agree on all counts. Europe started all kinds of pool clubs and leagues in the early 80s and youngsters were drilled in correct mechanics and straight pool pattern process . When I played in the 60s and 70s into the early / mid 80s we all just played for enjoyment with no thought of proper mechanics, etc .

 

[maha]

you haven't been bamboozled yet.

 

[Taxi]

I think many were basically asexual. I just looked this up and got this definition.

"Asexuality is considered a sexual orientation, similar to being heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual, and it is defined by a consistent lack of sexual attraction to others"

In the first pool room I ever played in, in Cambridge, Maryland, the best player was there nearly every day from opening time to closing time, whether or not he could find anyone to gamble with. Once I heard someone ask him if he ever did anything else for fun, and his reply was "Some people love pussy, I love pool."

 

[Biloxi Boy]

I gotcha Hu. Thought about him after I posted.

 

[ShootingArts]

you haven't been bamboozled yet.

One of my favorite lines, Andy talking to Kingfisher: "You done bammed your last boozle on me!"

 

[kling&allen]

Stu, before I ever met Keith, he traveled the tournament trail religiously. Back then, tournaments weren’t just about trophies. They were gathering places for after-hours action. For players like Keith and his circle, the real games often began when the bleachers emptied.

You’re a pool purist, and you’ve always seen the game a little differently than folks like me, and that's is perfectly okay. You appreciate the quiet geometry, the chess match of patterns, the elegance of a perfect stroke under pressure. Today’s pool, disciplined tournament soldiers playing mum pool, is what brings a pool purist that greatest joy as a pool enthusiast, and I do understand why.

As for personalities, the game still has a few. Alex Pagulayan continues to bring energy and levity wherever he plays. Oi is another colorful character, and Jayson Shaw certainly has personality both on and off the table. But they are exceptions now, not the rule.

Those of us lucky enough to have lived through pool’s golden years saw something different, entertainers as much as champions, people like, well, Keith McCready, Ronnie Allen, Larry Lisciotti, Cornbread Red, Strawberry, Minnesota Fats, Jimmy Mataya, Earl Strickland, Shannon Daulton, Louie Roberts, Dennis Hatch, Jimmy Reid, Grady Mathews, CJ Wiley, Popcorn, Kid Delicious, Allen Hopkins, Ginky, Steve Mizerak. And that’s just off the top of my head. Given more time, I could name a couple dozen more with personality-plus.

The era of what I call "pool's golden years" had something modern pool often lacks: danger, personality, and mythology. What made them different was not only their talent, but their toughness, stamina for 12-hour sessions, emotional control under financial pain, and a killer instinct when blood was in the water. Back then, reputations were earned in cash, not trophies.

So, Stu, you’re in luck. Today pool is exactly where you want it to be in caliber of play, venues, and professionalism. The best tournament players are no longer the most feared money players. It’s a different era, and I hope you enjoy your front-row seat as the game evolves into its next frontier. Modern pool, your cup of tea, is technically superior, thanks to advances in equipment and training. Classic pool, my cup of tea, was culturally superior. Different eras produced different animals, and both deserve respect.

Great article about you and Keith in Billiards Digest!

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

I don't mean a better standard. I mean was it more exciting to be a top player, more enjoyable to watch, more interesting in general?

It all just seems a little bit less entertaining now.

Just a little? Lol.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

I don't doubt that standards are better today. That's just the way of it in nearly all games and sports, partly because of better equipment and partly because the players are just better.

But it just has kinda lost something for me.

Players of today are better, thanks to the better equipment. Put them on the equipment that was available 50 years ago, and make them play with the equipment that was available at that time, and lets see if they are anywhere near as strong of a player. I think they would not be though.

 

[Kris_b1104]

Players of today are better, thanks to the better equipment. Put them on the equipment that was available 50 years ago, and make them play with the equipment that was available at that time, and lets see if they are anywhere near as strong of a player. I think they would not be though.

Which player from 50 years ago would have even a slight chance against a Filler in dead stroke?

 

[middleofnowhere]

Which player from 50 years ago would have even a slight chance against a Filler in dead stroke?

Lassiter. I was just watching him the other night. I saw him play a number of times in person. Like the players today he was very precision. I have no doubt if he was a young man today he could play today's players. He had a short stroke and pocketed balls with deadly accuracy.
In my minds eye, I can easily imagine him on today's tight fast tables running out like a machine.

 

[Kris_b1104]

I am reluctant to broach the subject, and I certainly do not mean to be negative or derisive, but here goes . . . I came up and live in a very straight pool world, perhaps I should more accurately say "in a very straight world". The world has certainly changed, but not my pool hall world. I don't ever recall seeing an identifiable or "out" gay person in a pool hall, and I cannot come up with a reason except the pool world is so macho it is incapable of tolerating gay folks. What do y'all think?

This is interesting indeed. I've never associated the word macho to pool. It's quite the opposite for me, most pool halls were filled with whiny, sensitive crybabies. Most of them probably didn't know how to change a car tire. But they shot lights out. There was the exception of a few extroverted characters who had the gift of gab, but it was a rarity. I've always associated amateur pool players to somewhat weird, introverted and unique personalities.

I've also never met an openly gay pool player.

 

[vintagecollectibles831]

Which player from 50 years ago would have even a slight chance against a Filler in dead stroke?

Seems you missed my point. Filler, for example, has been playing with a high tech Predator cue for his entire life. There were no high tech LD cues available 50 years ago. Also, the tables, rails, cloth, and balls were different. The cloth was a lot slower. They did not have that super fast Simonis stuff available 50 years ago. The rails probably were not as great as they are today either. The balls were probably not as good either. I am not sure just how strong Filler would be able to play, if you took him back 50 years, in a time machine, without his own cues, and had him use whatever was available 50 years ago. Back then, most Pros probably played with either a Joss, or a Meucci. I am sure that Filler could still really great, but on his regular level? I am not sure about that.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Seems you missed my point. Filler, for example, has been playing with a high tech Predator cue for his entire life. There were no high tech LD cues available 50 years ago. Also, the tables, rails, cloth, and balls were different. The cloth was a lot slower. They did not have that super fast Simonis stuff available 50 years ago. The rails probably were not as great as they are today either. The balls were probably not as good either. I am not sure just how strong Filler would be able to play, if you took him back 50 years, in a time machine, without his own cues, and had him use whatever was available 50 years ago. Back then, most Pros probably played with either a Joss, or a Meucci. I am sure that Filler could still really great, but on his regular level? I am not sure about that.

I think the 50 year number picked for this discussion is not far enough back for a real contrast.
In the 70s it was not that much different then today. I played on fairly fast tables, balls were always clean, chalk worked fine. Mostly I used a French champion tip and my cue in the 70 was a Gina cue. It was somewhat advanced for the day. Had a slimmer butt and seemed more responsive then some of the other cues.
Interestingly I was watching a video of Greenlief and Irwin Rudolph. The table they were playing on had really tight pockets.
I have always understood that at a point pockets were made larger for the general public to increase the popularity of the game.
You go back farther and they were playing on 10 foot tables with tighter pockets in rooms with no air-conditioning and they played at a high level.
I think an argument can be made that today's playing conditions are far easier.
If you could magically bring back one those old-time players and let them play today they may be superstars.

 

[fjk]

If you could magically bring back one those old-time players and let them play today they may be superstars.

Maybe. Just the other day I was watching an old match, I believe it was Hopkins and Earl. They both missed badly a few times a rack, but the pockets were so loose they fell anyway. One of the commentators commented on how loose the table was playing and how many of those balls wouldn't fall on another table. The other commentator said if they were tighter, they both would adjust by taking some more strokes and baring down a little more. In short, he meant they were aiming as accurately as they needed to. So maybe you're right about the older legends being able to compete today.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Maybe. Just the other day I was watching an old match, I believe it was Hopkins and Earl. They both missed badly a few times a rack, but the pockets were so loose they fell anyway. One of the commentators commented on how loose the table was playing and how many of those balls wouldn't fall on another table. The other commentator said if they were tighter, they both would adjust by taking some more strokes and baring down a little more. In short, he meant they were aiming as accurately as they needed to. So maybe you're right about the older legends being able to compete today.

I suspect they were using the table to their advantage. In other words cheating pockets bumping rails firing balls down the rail with tremendous speed to get position and so on is how they played the game because they knew the table permitted it and they took advantage of that.
It permitted them to play in a more freewheeling way and not robotic like today.

Your comments about them hitting balls that would have missed on a tighter table is no indictment of their skills. In fact I've played Hopkins I can tell you he's one of the most precision players I've ever seen when it comes to pocketing balls. That little pokey stroke he's got he could place the ball in the pocket almost anywhere he wanted center, side, cheat the pocket it made no difference.

Again this is no debate just observations and opinions.
Just as a side note one major difference today is the safety play. These players so rarely actually shoot a tough shot opting to play safe, I don't even know if they're good shot makers or not.

 

[JPB2]

So maybe you're right about the older legends being able to compete today.

Generally speaking I think that in most sports and endeavors the best could compete across eras. It is difficult or impossible to compare across eras but as Hu has pointed out humans haven’t evolved much. I saw a computer comparison trying to estimate how fast Jesse Owens I think it was would be today with modern track surfaces and modern conditions. He would be fast. If you could Time Machine the guys at the top from back then to today and give them some training time for the equipment and conditions, the best from then would be very good. I’d personally like to see 1953 Ben Hogan taken to a launch monitor. After about a week with the new equipment he’d be fine. As meticulous as he was without the technology it would be interesting to see what he would do now.

 

[maha]

One of my favorite lines, Andy talking to Kingfisher: "You done bammed your last boozle on me!"

holy mackerel hu.

 

[maha]

Lassiter. I was just watching him the other night. I saw him play a number of times in person. Like the players today he was very precision. I have no doubt if he was a young man today he could play today's players. He had a short stroke and pocketed balls with deadly accuracy.
In my minds eye, I can easily imagine him on today's tight fast tables running out like a machine.

ive seen filler miss more shots than lassiter ever did.

and ive seen lassiter play more than filler. and way past his prime.

his saying was,,, if I watch someone practice for an hour and they only miss once, i know i can beat them"