WAXGATE and the Effects of Slick Cloth and Waxed Balls

Bob Jewett said:
There is cloth that is very slippery and stays that way.

I've played recently on a home table with year-old cloth where it was impossible to make many standard position shots because the spin wouldn't take on the cushions.

Years ago a local room had cloth on their GC3s that was both very slippery and fairly slow, which is a strange combination.

But neither of those cases was Simonis.
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My brother in law has Proline or Proform cloth on his 8’ table. It’s so slick I was able to do the Corey Deuel draw shot without his stroke🤣
 
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dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that discusses the WaxGate controversy following the recent $1M World Championship in Saudi Arabia. I break down example shots from the tournament, comparing typical and slick or waxed conditions. I also demonstrate all ball-reaction effects that are different with a waxed ball. Finally, I offer recommendations for changes that should be made to the game in response to move forward positively. Check it out:


Contents:
0:00 - Background
2:42 - Example Shots
5:00 - Fedor's Banana Carom Shot
6:52 - All Waxing Effects
---- 7:01 - draw is easier
---- 7:06 - sidespin reacts less
---- 7:50 - rolling speed is similar
---- 8:05 - more speed loss off rails
---- 8:23 - pockets play larger
---- 8:39 - CB persists on tangent line longer
---- 9:40 - follow shots stall off rails
---- 10:40 - rolling kick and bank shots go longer
---- 11:20 - balls throw less
---- 12:31 - miscue limit no different
---- 12:46 - not all spin lost on kick
---- 13:33 - shallow-angle follow scratch more likely
---- 13:51 - massé shots are more impressive
14:32 - Recommendations
16:31 - More Info

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
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I forgot one slick-cloth/waxed-ball effect. Can anybody think of it (or others)? I might need a follow-up video.
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that discusses the WaxGate controversy following the recent $1M World Championship in Saudi Arabia. I break down example shots from the tournament, comparing typical and slick or waxed conditions. I also demonstrate all ball-reaction effects that are different with a waxed ball. Finally, I offer recommendations for changes that should be made to the game in response to move forward positively. Check it out:


Contents:
0:00 - Background
2:42 - Example Shots
5:00 - Fedor's Banana Carom Shot
6:52 - All Waxing Effects
---- 7:01 - draw is easier
---- 7:06 - sidespin reacts less
---- 7:50 - rolling speed is similar
---- 8:05 - more speed loss off rails
---- 8:23 - pockets play larger
---- 8:39 - CB persists on tangent line longer
---- 9:40 - follow shots stall off rails
---- 10:40 - rolling kick and bank shots go longer
---- 11:20 - balls throw less
---- 12:31 - miscue limit no different
---- 12:46 - not all spin lost on kick
---- 13:33 - shallow-angle follow scratch more likely
---- 13:51 - massé shots are more impressive
14:32 - Recommendations
16:31 - More Info

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
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Excellent job recreating those shots!
 
dr_dave said:
I forgot one slick-cloth/waxed-ball effect. Can anybody think of it (or others)? I might need a follow-up video.
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Increased net deflection when shooting with English due to reduced swerve.

I don’t think you mentioned the effect on check side - the fact that inside English doesn’t take properly (at least that’s the case with brand new cloth).

One other thing that you mentioned but doesn’t get enough attention is the effect in the kicking game. I’d like to see the effect on 2 and 3 rail kicks that are so important in these pro matches.
 
dr_dave said:
... unless it was sprayed or wiped down before play with a wax or lubricant like Silicone spray.
... or unless the balls were also polished before play with an unusual cleaner or wax.

I did a video many years ago showing how what your clean the balls with has a big effect:

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I saw in this test that you used used balls for the standard, did you try any tests with new balls? Im curious how new balls compare with used balls cleaned with Aramith cleaner. I only use Aramith cleaner on my balls :) :) and they seem to feel like a brand new set. I suppose I could test this myself because I have a brand new set of unopened Aramith Tournaments, I was saving them for my new cloth though.
 
GideonF said:
Increased net deflection when shooting with English due to reduced swerve.
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Bingo.

GideonF said:
I don’t think you mentioned the effect on check side - the fact that inside English doesn’t take properly (at least that’s the case with brand new cloth).

One other thing that you mentioned but doesn’t get enough attention is the effect in the kicking game. I’d like to see the effect on 2 and 3 rail kicks that are so important in these pro matches.
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Good ideas. I’ll include them in the follow-up video.
 
fastone371 said:
I saw in this test that you used used balls for the standard, did you try any tests with new balls? Im curious how new balls compare with used balls cleaned with Aramith cleaner. I only use Aramith cleaner on my balls :) :) and they seem to feel like a brand new set. I suppose I could test this myself because I have a brand new set of unopened Aramith Tournaments, I was saving them for my new cloth though.
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It would be interesting to test cloths and balls under all conditions, but I have not done this.
 
billiards_watch said:
I hope Aramith ball cleaner change their formula and add the more waxy substance. Ball will stay a lot cleaner. They don't do it because they want you to continue to buy their cleaner. The gloss on the ball wears away after a game.
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I don't see that when using Aramiths cleaner at home and my cleaner is diluted apx 20%.
I have a diamond like cleaner and clean the balls apx every two weeks of hone play.
I would say my table averages about one half hr play per day, and when cleaning the balls, I put a big drop on one finger tip and spread that onto 4 balls, then do the same to the other 4. After cleaning, the balls look like you were taking new balls out of the pkg with no slippery feel.
I used to use full strength Aramith, and the balls almost felt tacky after cleaning.
Everyone gas their own way of cleaning, mine works great for me.
Also, that one bottle of Aramith cleaner will probably last me 10 years or more. If yours doesn't, you are either putting too much on, or cleaning much more often. It only takes a drop or two for 8 balls.
 
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vincett said:
Aramith Cleaner makes balls more slick. The balls virtually will slide before spinning away on cut shots. Unlike vinegar/soap/alcohol solutions
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I think that's mostly because it makes the surface of the ball smoother. Try washing the ball after you use the cleaner and see if it acts the same.
 
vincett said:
Aramith Cleaner makes balls more slick. The balls virtually will slide before spinning away on cut shots. Unlike vinegar/soap/alcohol solutions
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That certainly is not my experience. To me balls that come out of my Diamond polisher using Aramith cleaner feel pretty much identical to what a new out of the box set of balls feel like. As far as I know Aramith cleaner contains no silicon and no wax.
 
fastone371 said:
That certainly is not my experience. To me balls that come out of my Diamond polisher using Aramith cleaner feel pretty much identical to what a new out of the box set of balls feel like. As far as I know Aramith cleaner contains no silicon and no wax.
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Not sure what makes the balls slide more effortlessly with these cleaners, but they do. If i cleaned my stuff with water/soap/vinegar/alcohol solution then my balls behaves similar to clean balls at the bars. That is why I dont use aramith cleaner anymore. They dont cling or skids the way balls at the bars do lol

I am not a pro, just a casual player. But this is my video of demonstration. The dotted CB is solution clean, the Solid white CB is Aramith cleaner. The Black OB is solution clean and white OB is Aramith cleaner

You can see that the solid CB draws more effortlessly, where as the DOT CB doesnt

 
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vincett said:
... behaves similar to clean balls at the bars. ...
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I think you hit the balls in the video at different heights to get that much difference in draw with those particular shots.

"Clean" is a relative term. For some fun, slip in a cleaned cue ball on the bar table. Sort of your own mini WaxGate. (y) :devilish:

But I thought you were planning to play in pro tournaments. Those conditions are usually different from bars.

Have you started to use side spin for position yet?
 
dr_dave said:
I show and discuss the rule near the end of the video. See also: WPA Equipment Spec 16. You are not allowed to polish balls with a dedicated wax, but it is okay to use a pool ball cleaner that might have a small amount of wax in it.
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Well I have some Ball Polish in Plastic container, got it from Muellers years ago, and it does make the Balls act different for maybe 1/2 hour. But if I am playing someone else, we both have the same advantage, or disadvantage until the ball Roll around a bit.

Clean Ball act differently then Dirty Pool Balls.
 
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