Ways To Keep Your Dominant Eye, Dominant

You have to see * a straight line*. And then you have to place *somehow* your cue on this line.

http://www.sightrightuk.com/snookeraid.htm

Very old principle-extremly simple system- imo still the best. Til now i just use this *system* (if you may call it a system) or other *oldschooled* things.
i m using this since middle/end of 80 s. Shown by a snooker guy in London.
And til now successful.


lg
Ingo
 
I find it confusing how some can say that dominant eye doesn't matter ---- It's more important for the player to find their "vision center."

What are the statistics of players' vision centers? How are they sighting their cues after they find their vision center? What players use their recessive eye after they have found their vision center and how does that compare in numbers with other players?

It's simple common sense: Gather the stats and report back before you start theorizing that dominant eye isn't significant. Aren't you just reinventing the wheel by saying forget dominant eye, just find your vision center, yet the end result is cue placement somewhere under the dominant eye? Where are your stats showing otherwise?

I've got a better test for you: Determine how severely dominant the eye is and that will help you tremendously. The more severe the eye dominance, (the farther out of the circle the object jumps with the simple eye dominance test), the more significant the dominant eye will be in the aiming process for that player.

If you can't show concrete evidence of players shooting with their cue under their recessive eye who don't have an eye pathology, then I think it's time that you all accepted the role of the dominant eye in shooting pool.

I've already proven the significance of the dominant eye in the aiming process in studying the hundreds of students that I've worked individually with over the years.

Now it's your turn. Prove it.
 
FranCrimi said:
I find it confusing how some can say that dominant eye doesn't matter ---- It's more important for the player to find their "vision center."

What are the statistics of players' vision centers? How are they sighting their cues after they find their vision center? What players use their recessive eye after they have found their vision center and how does that compare in numbers with other players?

It's simple common sense: Gather the stats and report back before you start theorizing that dominant eye isn't significant. Aren't you just reinventing the wheel by saying forget dominant eye, just find your vision center, yet the end result is cue placement somewhere under the dominant eye? Where are your stats showing otherwise?

I've got a better test for you: Determine how severely dominant the eye is and that will help you tremendously. The more severe the eye dominance, (the farther out of the circle the object jumps with the simple eye dominance test), the more significant the dominant eye will be in the aiming process for that player.

If you can't show concrete evidence of players shooting with their cue under their recessive eye who don't have an eye pathology, then I think it's time that you all accepted the role of the dominant eye in shooting pool.

I've already proven the significance of the dominant eye in the aiming process in studying the hundreds of students that I've worked individually with over the years.

Now it's your turn. Prove it.
Click to expand...
Fran,

I'm not sure this post was directed at me or not, but I'll respond anyway.

I think a careful scientific study on this topic would be very interesting, but all we seem to have at this point is "anecdotal evidence."

I tend to believe that ocular dominance does not necessary directly relate to which head position results in the best binocular-vision perception of the desired line of aim (and center-ball tip alignment) at a pool table.

I have certainly seen many players who center the cue between their eyes, regardless of which eye might be "dominant" or not. There are also many players who position the cue somewhere between their eyes, but not exactly centered. Some players (but I think few) position the cue directly beneath one eye. To me, what is important is determining the head position that works best for each individual, regardless of their "ocular dominance" designation (based on one of the standard, non-pool tests). I use the phrase "vision center" to refer to the ideal head position for accurate 3-D perception at the pool table. In my opinion, it doesn't necessarily help somebody to know which eye might be dominant or not (using one of the standard tests). What is important is having the person find their personal vision center.

Regardless, like you, I think it would be very interesting to know how vision center positions correlate with ocular dominance, if there is such a correlation. Although, I still think it would still be important for every individual to identify their ideal vision center position based on an outcome-based procedure (e.g., a vision center drill) rather than through an ocular-dominance test that really has little to do with aligning a cue and aiming a shot at a pool table, IMO.

If you haven't seen Bob Fansher's article on this topic, check it out. Here it is:
You might not agree with it, but it is still an interesting read.

Also, check out the following articles I wrote for Billiards Digest dealing with visual alignment and sighting:
You and others might find them interesting.

Respectfully,
Dave
 
A couple of references that might be of interest.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14998366?dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11369037?dopt=Abstract

Apparently eye dominance can (and does?) change based on horizontal angle.

Might want to think about that as you move across the field. On the other hand you could let your brain compensate as it has learned to do.

I think we have different visual needs depending on conditions when playing pool. A single point of reference is, in my opinion, better. For some the cue placement under or near one eye is better, for others, not so much.

Depends on one's needs.
 
I am legally blind in my left eye so there is no question about eye dominance. However, I line up with the cue under my dominant eye and have the cue touch the right side of my chin every now and again. I think this is a good way to make sure you are lined up correctly. Just make sure you are touching the exact same spot every time. This is what archers do when releasing an arrow. They are touching the side of their face at a particular spot every time. Hope this helps.
 
Ratta said:
You have to see * a straight line*. And then you have to place *somehow* your cue on this line.

http://www.sightrightuk.com/snookeraid.htm

Very old principle-extremly simple system- imo still the best. Til now i just use this *system* (if you may call it a system) or other *oldschooled* things.
i m using this since middle/end of 80 s. Shown by a snooker guy in London.
And til now successful.


lg
Ingo
Click to expand...

That is a neat idea and shows very quickly where your head should be. Thanks, I'll try it tonight. BTW, there is a Youtube video.
 
FranCrimi said:
I find it confusing how some can say that dominant eye doesn't matter ---- It's more important for the player to find their "vision center."

What are the statistics of players' vision centers? How are they sighting their cues after they find their vision center? What players use their recessive eye after they have found their vision center and how does that compare in numbers with other players?

It's simple common sense: Gather the stats and report back before you start theorizing that dominant eye isn't significant. Aren't you just reinventing the wheel by saying forget dominant eye, just find your vision center, yet the end result is cue placement somewhere under the dominant eye? Where are your stats showing otherwise?

I've got a better test for you: Determine how severely dominant the eye is and that will help you tremendously. The more severe the eye dominance, (the farther out of the circle the object jumps with the simple eye dominance test), the more significant the dominant eye will be in the aiming process for that player.

If you can't show concrete evidence of players shooting with their cue under their recessive eye who don't have an eye pathology, then I think it's time that you all accepted the role of the dominant eye in shooting pool.

I've already proven the significance of the dominant eye in the aiming process in studying the hundreds of students that I've worked individually with over the years.

Now it's your turn. Prove it.
Click to expand...

And that would be published where ?

Seems the onus is on you as the literature runs counter to common sense, especially as dominance in the horizontal field changes from situation to situation with as little as a 15 degree shift.
 
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Woof Biscuit said:
I am legally blind in my left eye so there is no question about eye dominance. However, I line up with the cue under my dominant eye and have the cue touch the right side of my chin every now and again. I think this is a good way to make sure you are lined up correctly. Just make sure you are touching the exact same spot every time. This is what archers do when releasing an arrow. They are touching the side of their face at a particular spot every time. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I think this is the one case where there is no doubt about a person's vision center position. I have seen several mono-vision people who have played quite well. Depth perception is more difficult without binocular vision, but you have the advantage of not potentially being confused by the two different images two eyes would present to the brain. You see only one line, one CB, and one cue. In some ways, that's an advantage over those of us with vision in two eyes who see two of everything.

Regards,
Dave
 
Ratta said:
You have to see * a straight line*. And then you have to place *somehow* your cue on this line.

http://www.sightrightuk.com/snookeraid.htm

Very old principle-extremly simple system- imo still the best. Til now i just use this *system* (if you may call it a system) or other *oldschooled* things.
i m using this since middle/end of 80 s. Shown by a snooker guy in London.
And til now successful.


lg
Ingo
Click to expand...

I wonder if any American pool players have ever used this "device"/template?
 
JoeyA said:
I wonder if any American pool players have ever used this "device"/template?
Click to expand...
Check out the quotes from Neil and JoeW on the vision center resource page. Their proposed methods basically work the same way as the SightRight device; although, I like the simplicity of the SightRight approach.

Here's Neil's quote:
Take an extra shaft and lay it on the table pointing away from you. Get down in your stance with your cue with your bridge hand at the end of the spare shaft. Place your cue over the shaft. When you see equal parts of the shaft on each side of your cue, you then know you are seeing a straight line. That is where your head should be.​

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
I think this is the one case where there is no doubt about a person's vision center position. I have seen several mono-vision people who have played quite well. Depth perception is more difficult without binocular vision, but you have the advantage of not potentially being confused by the two different images two eyes would present to the brain. You see only one line, one CB, and one cue. In some ways, that's an advantage over those of us with vision in two eyes who see two of everything.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dave. That's very interesting. I have amblyopia. My brain ignores my left eye; so it's like I'm always wearing an eye patch. I'm a weak A player with infrequent moments of greatness! :D After reading all of the threads out there about eye alignment, dominant eye, etc., I often wondered if it was an advantage to only use one eye. It seems like it is. One huge disadvantage is that my eye gets tired after a couple hours of play. I sometimes get a twitch in my eyelid and headaches. I had rather have everyone else's problem. The Lord giveth and he taketh away. :o
 
dr_dave said:
Fran,

I'm not sure this post was directed at me or not, but I'll respond anyway.

I think a careful scientific study on this topic would be very interesting, but all we seem to have at this point is "anecdotal evidence."

I tend to believe that ocular dominance does not necessary directly relate to which head position results in the best binocular-vision perception of the desired line of aim (and center-ball tip alignment) at a pool table.

I have certainly seen many players who center the cue between their eyes, regardless of which eye might be "dominant" or not. There are also many players who position the cue somewhere between their eyes, but not exactly centered. Some players (but I think few) position the cue directly beneath one eye. To me, what is important is determining the head position that works best for each individual, regardless of their "ocular dominance" designation (based on one of the standard, non-pool tests). I use the phrase "vision center" to refer to the ideal head position for accurate 3-D perception at the pool table. In my opinion, it doesn't necessarily help somebody to know which eye might be dominant or not (using one of the standard tests). What is important is having the person find their personal vision center.

Regardless, like you, I think it would be very interesting to know how vision center positions correlate with ocular dominance, if there is such a correlation. Although, I still think it would still be important for every individual to identify their ideal vision center position based on an outcome-based procedure (e.g., a vision center drill) rather than through an ocular-dominance test that really has little to do with aligning a cue and aiming a shot at a pool table, IMO.

If you haven't seen Bob Fansher's article on this topic, check it out. Here it is:
You might not agree with it, but it is still an interesting read.

Also, check out the following articles I wrote for Billiards Digest dealing with visual alignment and sighting:
You and others might find them interesting.

Respectfully,
Dave
Click to expand...

Dave, we are basically in agreement here. However, our hypotheses concerning eye dominance in absence of a formal study on pool players may be different.

As I have written many times on this and other forums, my hypothesis is based on my interactions with hundreds of individual players, mostly students who I've tested for dominant eye, and observed their shooting successes and failures. I should have written it all down and treated it as a study, but I wasn't thinking along those lines during all of those encounters. What I am referring to is how a player is aligned when they are down on their shot --- just to make it clear. I'm not referring to how they see while they are standing or approaching their shot.

I think it goes without saying that everyone should find the optimal place to place their cue. I'm confident in the correlation that I have found, although I never rule out the possibility of the existence of the odd exception in the absence of a pathology.

But to dismiss the role of the dominant eye without evidence, and I'm not sure that you are one of those who do it, is IMO, irresponsible to our sport.
 
The Renfro said:
...
If you want bench marks Geno is your man.... He showed me several check points to the single one I use and showed him.... If I can get to a table over the weekend with a camera I can show you my trick but the video will be shorter than the time it will take for me to try and describe it in words.......
Click to expand...

I would be interested to see that Chris - and I agree that one way or another Gene is making a huge contribution in this area.
 
I started this thread with the idea that somebody out there may have a better way to kep my dominant eye in charge. It seems a percentage of players feel that the dominant eye is neither an issue of concern or can be assimilated into a vision center alignment routine.

I played for many years without a clue of eye dominance. I played great or mediocre. Many times both in the same session. After examining and finding my dominanat eye, my consistency improved dramatically. My problem has become my brain's ability to "work around" my eye dominance and perform tasks with an adjusted vision center.

When my non-dominant eye takes over the aiming, I'll usually miss the shot. The shot looks good, but I align incorrectly. With diligence to keep my dominant eye dominant, I run racks. Because of this stark difference in aiming alignments, I feel a dominant eye is an important thing to know about...for me and maybe others. Not all people will need this information. They can align normally without a problem. They won't also, understand all the concern about something that is so easy to accomplish for them. For instance, I teach different sports and can do things easily, whereas some of my students struggle. I wonder why they can't do certain movements, but know each one of us is different.

So, such a trivial concept is uinimaginable to you, but to me it is the entire game. Any ideas that have worked for you to keep your dominant eye dominant?

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
I started this thread with the idea that somebody out there may have a better way to kep my dominant eye in charge. It seems a percentage of players feel that the dominant eye is neither an issue of concern or can be assimilated into a vision center alignment routine.

I played for many years without a clue of eye dominance. I played great or mediocre. Many times both in the same session. After examining and finding my dominanat eye, my consistency improved dramatically. My problem has become my brain's ability to "work around" my eye dominance and perform tasks with an adjusted vision center.

When my non-dominant eye takes over the aiming, I'll usually miss the shot. The shot looks good, but I align incorrectly. With diligence to keep my dominant eye dominant, I run racks. Because of this stark difference in aiming alignments, I feel a dominant eye is an important thing to know about...for me and maybe others. Not all people will need this information. They can align normally without a problem. They won't also, understand all the concern about something that is so easy to accomplish for them. For instance, I teach different sports and can do things easily, whereas some of my students struggle. I wonder why they can't do certain movements, but know each one of us is different.

So, such a trivial concept is uinimaginable to you, but to me it is the entire game. Any ideas that have worked for you to keep your dominant eye dominant?

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

As you probably know, I have the exact same issues as you.

Here's another idea I use to help my pool dominate eye stay dominant: I use artificial tear drops because of having had lazik surgery twice. On league days, I put drops only in my pool dominate eye so it is clearer and less irritated than my pool non-dominant eye. My brain seems to like that.

This helps but isn't the "cure" you're looking for, if there is one.

Jeff Livingston
 
Left of right

This is a subject that I have done some research on, I can only speak for what I have found works for me. I have read books and anaylized this with my own game, we are all built differently but I think one basic idea may be a decent rule of thumb. Unless the player has a lazy eye or other vision problems - one eye will sight better from a closer distance (alignment) the other (which may not be your dominant eye will see better from a distance). This having been said if both eyes are equally strong in each of these areas - a player who on a tavern table who is right handed and right eye dominant will generally line the cue up towards the right side of his or her chin. The same player on a ten foot table will be a bit confused with the depth perception and without knowing it will bring the cue over more towards the center of the chin. Again this is what I have found works for me, there is one shot in particular where I tend to use my non-dominant eye more. You will have to travel to MO to learn more about this shot, be carefull when anaylizing this with your game as it will drive you pretty much crazy. Once yo have a decent concept on what works for you - a huge key to success is quitening the mind, again this is a complicated subject and this is just what I have found to be beneficial for myself. Hope it helps.
 
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chefjeff said:
As you probably know, I have the exact same issues as you.

Here's another idea I use to help my pool dominate eye stay dominant: I use artificial tear drops because of having had lazik surgery twice. On league days, I put drops only in my pool dominate eye so it is clearer and less irritated than my pool non-dominant eye. My brain seems to like that.

This helps but isn't the "cure" you're looking for, if there is one.

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

I've found that when I sight each shot, I start to the left of the shot line. I'm right handed, right eye dominant. I come into the shot from left to right. This gives my right eye the shot image first.

If I come from right to left, my left eye picks up the shot and I line up incorrectly. The shot still looks good, but I'm off the line to pocket the ball. I steer and swoop and sometimes compensate, but it's a pisser, for sure. I stop and immediately look down and see my cue under my left eye.

One answer to stop my left eye from getting in on the aiming may be to put the cue completely under my right eye. There will be little doubt then about its location. This is a radical change and probably a last resort approach. Who knows if it would even work? sign0105.gif sign0135.gifsign0147.gifsign0186.gif

Best,
Mike
 
Danny Harriman said:
This is a subject that I have done some research on, I can only speak for what I have found works for me. I have read books and anaylized this with my own game, we are all built differently but I think one basic idea may be a decent rule of thumb. Unless the player has a lazy eye or other vision problems - one eye will sight better from a closer distance (alignment) the other (which may not be your dominant eye will see better from a distance). This having been said if both eyes are equally strong in each of these areas - a player who on a tavern table who is right handed and right eye dominant will generally line the cue up towards the right side of his or her chin. The same player on a ten foot table will be a bit confused with the depth perception and without knowing it will bring the cue over more towards the center of the chin. Again this is what I have found works for me, there is one shot in particular where I tend to use my non-dominant eye more. You will have to travel to MO to learn more about this shot, be carefull when anaylizing this with your game as it will drive you pretty much crazy. Once yo have a decent concept on what works for you - a huge key to success is quitening the mind, again this is a complicated subject and this is just what I have found to be beneficial for myself. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...

Danny,

I don't know what category I'm in, but I play at least a ball better on a big table. It may be a concentration thing or maybe the opponents play worse on golf courses, but I do have less trouble with my dominant eye on smaller tables. confused0023.gif Good points. I'll factor them in to my growing equation.

Best,
Mike
 
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