What’s your definition of “clean” balls? This video raises questions…

[DeadStick]

So I randomly came across this video made by a PBIA instructor and BU grad (shoutout @dr_dave) that does a good job showing the differences in play between dirty and what he calls “clean” balls. If you don’t have time to watch the whole video, watch the 3-Rail kick section starting at 3:11 and/or the Reverse English section starting at 4:50:

Watch the video, and then answer the attached poll please. I’m curious what others here think about this subject.

Here’s the comment I left on the video, which states my position if you’re curious. Click to view:

I would argue that your “clean” balls are actually too slick/slippery due to your cleaning method. If you’re using straight Aramith cleaning solution, it leaves a slight layer of wax-type substance on the balls that makes them slicker than they are when brand new.

The sliding off kicks, ease of pocketing rail shots, and trouble getting good action from CB spin off rails this brings changes the game, and not in a good way imo.

I prefer playing with balls that are CLEAN, but not slicked-up more than their new condition. So I use a mix of Aramith:Rubbing alcohol at 1:4 ratio in my ball cleaning machine. That leaves them with a very similar play as their condition when new.

Artistic Billiards artists sometimes apply wax or silicone to balls to pull off amazing massé and other crazy spin shots. What your “clean” balls are doing is a mild version of that.

 

[dr_dave]

So I randomly came across this video made by a PBIA instructor and BU grad (shoutout @dr_dave) that does a good job showing the differences in play between dirty and what he calls “clean” balls:

Watch the video, and then answer the attached poll please. I’m curious what others here think about this subject.

Here’s the comment I left on the video, which states my position if you’re curious. Click to view:

I would argue that your “clean” balls are actually too slick/slippery due to your cleaning method. If you’re using straight Aramith cleaning solution, it leaves a slight layer of wax-type substance on the balls that makes them slicker than they are when brand new.

The sliding off kicks, ease of pocketing rail shots, and trouble getting good action from CB spin off rails this brings changes the game, and not in a good way imo.

I prefer playing with balls that are CLEAN, but not slicked-up more than their new condition. So I use a mix of Aramith:Rubbing alcohol at 1:4 ratio in my ball cleaning machine. That leaves them with a very similar play as their condition when new.

Artistic Billiards artists sometimes apply wax or silicone to balls to pull off amazing massé and other crazy spin shots. What your “clean” balls are doing is a mild version of that.

Check out the videos and articles here:

ball cleaning effects​

What you use to clean the balls is important.

 

[DeadStick]

Check out the videos and articles here:

ball cleaning effects​

What you use to clean the balls is important.

I went through your content on this subject several months ago. It’s very good and thorough, but I still think that using straight Aramith cleaner as recommended often leaves balls too slick, depending on quantity used and buffing methodology.

I would also humbly suggest adding more emphasis on that page to CB effects. Spin effect off rails is greatly diminished with a slick CB, and draw effect is greatly magnified.

Besides CIT differences, the bigger problem, for me at least, is the jarring effect of transferring your CB control game from your home table to league or tournament play, where balls are rarely so slick. I play weekly tournaments at a very good local room with 9’ Diamonds, 860HR cloth, and relatively new and clean Aramith balls, but the CB action differences are huge compared to home-polished balls that are too slick.

 

[RT Ford]

I routinely wipe the balls I'm going to use with a damp towel. This gives me a consistent hit. In a public room, players often snack while playing and oil from their hands is transferred to the balls.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I agree with your assessment 100%....I use the exact same bucket set up and Aramith ball cleaner....might as well clean em with Pledge.

To me it is akin to bowling on a dry (non league night) lane vs a fresh oiled lane (right before the league/tournament).....

CB (and OBs) do some funky Sh&!.......and I have an incredible draw stroke for a while....It is like they have to go through a break in period to get back to normal play.

Imagine how much you could mess with someone's confidence if you only polished two sides of the ball.....say....just the numbers....

 

[boogieman]

So I randomly came across this video made by a PBIA instructor and BU grad (shoutout @dr_dave) that does a good job showing the differences in play between dirty and what he calls “clean” balls:

Watch the video, and then answer the attached poll please. I’m curious what others here think about this subject.

Here’s the comment I left on the video, which states my position if you’re curious. Click to view:

I would argue that your “clean” balls are actually too slick/slippery due to your cleaning method. If you’re using straight Aramith cleaning solution, it leaves a slight layer of wax-type substance on the balls that makes them slicker than they are when brand new.

The sliding off kicks, ease of pocketing rail shots, and trouble getting good action from CB spin off rails this brings changes the game, and not in a good way imo.

I prefer playing with balls that are CLEAN, but not slicked-up more than their new condition. So I use a mix of Aramith:Rubbing alcohol at 1:4 ratio in my ball cleaning machine. That leaves them with a very similar play as their condition when new.

Artistic Billiards artists sometimes apply wax or silicone to balls to pull off amazing massé and other crazy spin shots. What your “clean” balls are doing is a mild version of that.

I'm not watching an 8 minute video. I prefer clean balls over dirty but I can adapt when out in the wild. At home I clean them weekly if needed or not.

I also use the 91%IPA with some aramith cleaner in it. Shake before use and give a bucket full about 2-3 squirts.

 

[dr_dave]

I went through your content on this subject several months ago. It’s very good and thorough, but I still think that using straight Aramith cleaner as recommended often leaves balls too slick, depending on quantity used and buffing methodology.

I would also humbly suggest adding more emphasis on that page to CB effects. Spin effect off rails is greatly diminished with a slick CB, and draw effect is greatly magnified.

Besides CIT differences, the bigger problem, for me at least, is the jarring effect of transferring your CB control game from your home table to league or tournament play, where balls are rarely so slick. I play weekly tournaments at a very good local room with 9’ Diamonds, 860HR cloth, and relatively new and clean Aramith balls, but the CB action differences are huge compared to home-polished balls that are too slick.

Cloth type, age, and cleanliness are much more important effects concerning how much spin “takes” on the rails. Humidity is also a big factor.

 

[Mensabum]

I went through your content on this subject several months ago. It’s very good and thorough, but I still think that using straight Aramith cleaner as recommended often leaves balls too slick, depending on quantity used and buffing methodology.

I would also humbly suggest adding more emphasis on that page to CB effects. Spin effect off rails is greatly diminished with a slick CB, and draw effect is greatly magnified.

Besides CIT differences, the bigger problem, for me at least, is the jarring effect of transferring your CB control game from your home table to league or tournament play, where balls are rarely so slick. I play weekly tournaments at a very good local room with 9’ Diamonds, 860HR cloth, and relatively new and clean Aramith balls, but the CB action differences are huge compared to home-polished balls that are too slick.

Excellent reply to this post. The hall I play at doesn't clean their balls as often as I'd like, so I wipe them off B4 playing. They're still a bit dirty and retain the necessary friction I need to get good juice without 'slip' as I call it on new or polished balls. Any good player should notice the diff right away between action on clean vs dirty.
That's kinda what drew me to this game to begin with. The tarnish. A patina for champions. Lol.

 

[Bob Jewett]

The difference he shows on the max side spin kick shot between clean and dirty is much larger than I would expect so I wonder if something unusual is going on.

 

[dr_dave]

The difference he shows on the max side spin kick shot between clean and dirty is much larger than I would expect so I wonder if something unusual is going on.

Maybe his ball cleaner needs to be cleaned. There might be some wax buildup on the pads.

 

[rexus31]

"Clean" to me is shiny but not slick just like they come out of the box brand new. I've found a solution of 2-4 tablespoons Aramith Ball Cleaner mixed with8 ounces of 91% Isopropyl Alcohol used in my polisher achieves exactly this. Here's a video I made. I probably could have been a little more lively in my commentary...LOL, but you get the idea.

 

[Texas3cushion]

The conditions are always changing without my control.

I prefer clean balls when trying to fire a ball into the pocket while using a ton of spin.
But i prefer dirty when trying to throw a ball.
Yet I like clean when banking 2 rails cross-table playing 1pkt.

It all depends on the situation. My point is, that having a table at home under perfect conditions
is great for practice until you go out into the real world.

 

[DeadStick]

Cloth type, age, and cleanliness are much more important effects concerning how much spin “takes” on the rails. Humidity is also a big factor.

I agree cloth factors are important, but I’m not sure they’re much more important than ball surface friction.

 

[tomatoshooter]

So I randomly came across this video made by a PBIA instructor and BU grad (shoutout @dr_dave) that does a good job showing the differences in play between dirty and what he calls “clean” balls:

Watch the video, and then answer the attached poll please. I’m curious what others here think about this subject.

Here’s the comment I left on the video, which states my position if you’re curious. Click to view:

I would argue that your “clean” balls are actually too slick/slippery due to your cleaning method. If you’re using straight Aramith cleaning solution, it leaves a slight layer of wax-type substance on the balls that makes them slicker than they are when brand new.

The sliding off kicks, ease of pocketing rail shots, and trouble getting good action from CB spin off rails this brings changes the game, and not in a good way imo.

I prefer playing with balls that are CLEAN, but not slicked-up more than their new condition. So I use a mix of Aramith:Rubbing alcohol at 1:4 ratio in my ball cleaning machine. That leaves them with a very similar play as their condition when new.

Artistic Billiards artists sometimes apply wax or silicone to balls to pull off amazing massé and other crazy spin shots. What your “clean” balls are doing is a mild version of that.

I believe the rules say the banks should be cleaned with water and isopropyl alcohol. As most of you know, Aramith ball cleaner contains wax and abrasive. We should probably be cleaning the balls after using the polish. I clean/polish the balls by hand using cleaner sparingly and trying to wipe off as much as possible which seems to give adequate results. Also, one of the issues with leaving too much polish on the balls is that it can build up in the cloth on some areas, causing inconsistent cue ball action.

 

[fastone371]

I use Aramith cleaner in a Diamond polisher on all of my ball sets that I bought new. The balls that come new out of the box feel just like the balls that come out of my polisher. I use very little polish on my balls because they are all in nice condition, 1 very small drop on every other ball. Sometimes I throw them in the polisher with no polish added.

 

[fastone371]

I agree cloth factors are important, but I’m not sure they’re much more important than ball surface friction.

Cmon, look a the huge difference in play with new cloth vs old cloth, I have never that difference with pool balls unless someone uses silicone wax.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I agree cloth factors are important, but I’m not sure they’re much more important than ball surface friction.

It's the friction between the ball and the cloth and it takes two to tango.

I have a student who has WhoKnowsWhat cloth on his table. It is several years old. Many standard spin shots for position are hard or impossible. If you shoot straight up the middle of the table, it is hard to go straight to the side pocket and you should be able to hit nearly a diamond beyond the pocket. Using spin to go two rails out of a corner is an exercise in futility.

I think the cue ball is normal..

 

[WildWing]

Clean the cloth. Clean the pockets. Clean the rails. Damp paper towel on the balls. No need for the wear and tear with ball cleaners.

All the best,
WW

 

[MattPoland]

His clean balls are playing like new cloth. I wasn’t expecting that big of a difference from just cleaning them. That did seem like his cleaning method includes something that’s the equivalent of waxing the balls.

 

[trob]

I only clean mine with a bucket cleaner like once a month. partly because I’m lazy and partly because I’m not going to get perfect clean balls when I’m at leagues or a tournament so I don’t need it at home.