I think rotation is a great game to play and really get you in stroke. Why
are so many players reluctant to play this game !
are so many players reluctant to play this game !
What about Rotation !
- Thread starter PALMERJOHN
- Start date
PALMERJOHN said:
here is one definitive answer, players who are accustomed to playing a fast game like 9-ball don't have the patience to play it. the objective of 9-ball is pocketing the 9 and that's that. objective of rotation is to score 61 which takes a lot of time and skill to run out, specially if there are 15 balls on the table and you need the 1-11 consecutive balls to win or 11-15 balls. not to mention the constant and obvious safeties that comes along with it. this is not the ideal game for the impatient, which most players are nowadays. blame it on 9-ball.
one player kept on beating me playing 9-ball but I totally own him playing rotation. guess I'm a patient man. lol.
The math gives pool players headaches.PALMERJOHN said:
pj
chgo
Hail Mary Shot said:
Just a friendly correction. There are no safties in rotation, atleast not the way we think of them, as in 9-ball. If the approcahing player doesn't like his position, he takes the next ball up and places it on the spot. Then he gives the shot back to his opponent, with ball in hand behind the headstring.
I think as far as it being implemented as the main game in pro tournaments, it won't happen because of time issues. Think of how long a set of rotation, races to 9 or 11 could take. Each each rack could potentially last as much as 3-4 racks of 9B.
14.1, 1 pocket, and banks are specialty games. Rotation probably is more a specialty game also rather than a brother of 9 or 10 ball.
14.1, 1 pocket, and banks are specialty games. Rotation probably is more a specialty game also rather than a brother of 9 or 10 ball.
RunoutalloverU said:
Correct. There is a safety but the penalty is NOT a ball in hand in the context of 9B. After a foul from a safety/miscue/whatever and the incoming player does not like the position of the object ball at the time of his turn, he has the option of calling a 'spot-shot' in which the object ball is spotted in the foot spot and the shooter shoots on or behind the headstring. If the object ball is undesirable (buried or tough cuts) after being spotted, he can give the shot back to the opponent until a legal hit is made.
One interesting rule of the game also is that you need not hit a rail after hitting an object ball.
It's a great game if you want to improve your 9B or 10B game. Anybody who is proficient at it will find 9B and 10B like warm-up games. In a way,
it's like 1-hole from the stand point of being able to accurately control the cueball during runs, banks and 2-3 rail kickshots and also like 9B/10B from the stand point of being able to run balls.
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RunoutalloverU said:
Only if he has no clear straight on shot. Most games I've seen, spotting is not an option if the object is "hittable" even if the player can not do anything with it but just hit it.
Terry Ardeno said:
Back in the days, I've seen Efren string 5 racks of rotation in a money match. It was so much fun to watch because huge 'run-out' side bets are made before the break. Efren usually would ask for it too just before he whacks the rack. Guys here who know Efren and Parica should ask them.
Another side bet they used to do also in rotation was the 'cue ball stop' bets where they would mark a chalk spot, make the shot and have the cue ball stop on top of the mark. Very entertaining.
Damn I have been playing the game wrong this entire time, guess I should look up the rules if I want to play it seriously instead of just a practice game.
Patrick Johnson said:
I agree, I'm a CPA and it gives me a headache. I have never been good at math though.
RunoutalloverU said:
thanks but that is not what I meant. I know the rule regarding the spot shot. what I meant by the safety is that most if not all of the advanced rotation players tend to play a long safety battle til one of them blinks or foul rather than giving the option to spot. most of these players do an intentional foul just to cover those 2 footholes with awkwardly positioned or unmakeables OB combos or caroms. from where I came from, there is a word commonly used or spoken which is the "SPOTTER". if you heard someone called a person like that, be wary of that person coz once you spot a shot, it's lights out for you and expect that person to run out the rack. they rarely don't make a ball on a spot and run out.
If ever you go to the Phils and play rotation, as much as possible play the OB and refuse to give a spot. otherwise it's more like giving away a freelunch. that's how the likes of Efren and company mastered the kickshot, the refusal to give a spot. most of them advanced players mastered how to pocket and run out on a spot, that's why they resolve to mastering their kicking skills as well to avoid giving this option to their opponents. believe me, you won't see much spotting there. mostly are kicks and safety battles. once you mastered the spot, your opponent will surely have second thoughts giving that option to you.
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9 on the snap said:I agree, I'm a CPA and it gives me a headache. I have never been good at math though.
there is a technique on how to count faster or make it easier for you. arrange the pocketed balls in multiples of 5 or 10, then you will know how many balls you still need to make.
I don't play rotation. Mainly because, no one I know will play it. I play 15 ball by myself, for practice. I play it with the same rules as 9 ball, only using all 15 balls. Of course the beginning of the game is ample opportunity for easy safety shots, but I like to try and run it out. Cue ball control is even more critical at this point....especially when glancing off other balls to get position. Straight Pool and 15 ball are my 2 most favorite games.
Terry Ardeno said:
Terry, this can be quite a challenge. but for the pros, I believe this won't be a problem. I saw some shortstops make it as easy as playing 9ball, but it's just them. but if time was really a problem to this game, then its ok to make it a race to 3 or 5. then a shotclock if necessary, to avoid players from consuming too much time to take a shot.
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Another thing some people don't know about rotation, running out is only 1-11 not 1-15. Or an accumalation of 61 points, whichever comes first. So we had a very accomplished player on AZ post a youtube video, of him playing rotation, and in his own commentary he says that he doesn't run out, because he dogged a ball. Well he actually did run out, and could have stopped at the 11 ball. I thought it was all 15 too, until I got the accu-stats video of efren and busta playing an exhibition of rotation.
Hail Mary Shot said:
Hail Mary Shot,
I agree with you and should have added that I have an Accu-Stats match of Efren & Francisco playing rotation and it did not take them very long at all. (But which average pro can keep up with them?
)I also agree that the races would have to be shortened, perhaps race to 6 or 7?
I think the next logical step though is still 10 ball.
RunoutalloverU said:
nice to hear that runout. actually it's nice to see that people are starting to get interested in the game. a few months ago during the DCC me thinks, I heard players and even pros themselves scratch their heads watching Efren and Busty play a rotation exhibition match, wondering or trying to understand the rules. me thinks they were confused on the foul and scratch rule. when to re-spot the OB or when not to.
Darth-Pinoy
Registered
No safeties in "Rotation"? You're not quite familiar with the game are you? HeheheRunoutalloverU said:
Actually, it's the common safety battles that makes this game a lot of fun to watch. This is the "bread & butter" of games of old-time pool-sharks here in the islands (Philippines).
Rotation is actually a more strategical game compared to 9b and 10b. Back here, only a handful of top-players would even think about competing against Efren on rotation (Efren would play anybody in the world on this game). But they would all want a piece of him if it's gonna be 9b or 10b!
Now there's a true game of skill. In Rotation, you don't think about just connecting the dots. Most often (almost every rack, under whatever conditions and equiptment used) problems would arise as ball clusters or heavy traffic for the cue ball. The skill to navigate that CB thru 15 balls of rotation on the table is way harder than 15 balls of 8-ball or 14.1. Remember, you hafta hit the balls in numbered sequence in rotation!
Now that's just the easy part of the game.
Strategy here is a lot more complicated than it looks from a viewers standpoint. Imagine a situation wherein you do get to shoot the "spot-shot" BUT both corners have blocking balls!?! What would you do? Imagine having to clear a path first before finally pocketing the OB within about 2-3 shots, all the while playing safe everytime so as to force your opponent to respot each turn!
I can't describe it enough here how our top players do it. I'm sure Jay has a very good idea what I'm talking about since he's spent some time here. But let me assure you, when it's rotation you wanna learn, you definitely hafta come to the Philippines!
I've watched rotation games from a few other countries. (Sometimes with a few modified rules. I'm actually lucky if I do see someone playing rotation at all that's not Filipino!) The ones I liked best were a few Europeans (Germans, I think). But even they don't come near to the skill level of pinoy rotation players.
I hafta admit everybody's getting a lot better (or luckier) at 9-ball and 10-ball to the point that lotsa non-pinoy players can beat ours on any given day. It's really a hard guess nowadays.
But if the WPC was played on rotation games, I'm willing to bet that the title would be within the Philippines for atleast the first 10 years of that transition! Efren would probably take the first 2-3 titles.
My confidence lies in the fact that it is the first pool game that most pinoys learn. Even in the provinces. Its a basic thing to us. Wherein, most foreign pool players wouldn't even know the rules of the game. Or has never seen it played.
Of course, given time, it will be a game wherein anybody can win it. Everything will level out in time.
Darth-Pinoy said:
Um I said it isn't the safety play AS IN the way we think of safety play in 9-ball. This isn't right? There is no ball in hand correct? Well if there isn't ball in hand automatically safty play changes, AS IN THE WAY WE THINK OF IT IN 9-BALL. As ive said before, you can play a safety, however you can reject playing it, hence making it different than what are used to in 9-ball. And then when your opponent accepts the spot shot, he can play a safety, however since it is already on the spot and he has to start with ball behind the headstring, this is different than the safeties we think of when we think of safeties in 9-ball. So maybe you should read my post a little more closely before you correct me, or maybe its just you aren't very familiar with the game.
