What constitutes a good Stroke?
- Thread starter CaptainJR
- Start date
Imagine walking into a room completely black, no lights, except for a faint green glow from the cloth on the table. The only other light in the room is a white glow (like a ghost) of a cue and it's flowing so smooth (stroking motion) with no short, punchy motions, just a smooth flow backward, slight pause while transitioning to forward motion and a beautiful finish. The entire motion is like that of a pendulum. You don't see the person holding it, the type of grip, tip, shaft, cue maker or even the table....just a smooth pendulum motion of the cue!
Zim
Zim
A stroke is a release of energy and not an effort. You should release the cuestick. Your elbow should be completely still and you should complete the swing fully on every stroke. Let your elbow stop the cuestick, not your muscles. Your elbow will stop that cuestick just fine. Alota people use different strokes for outside low english or especially a draw stroke. There is no need. One stroke does everything for you. Your cue tip on every shot should be at the end of your stroke dug into the felt. You should never feel your cuetip level out or do any kinds of ups or downs. You should feel the cue tip punch through the cueball straight and freely. The best quote i've ever heard was "The hardest shot in pool is right here" (And the guy strokes a ghost cueball with a good full solid stroke). Which if you think about it, it's too true considering no matter if you're shooting a 90' cut with the OB on the rail or a straight in shot from 2 ft away. They're both the same stroke. It's all mental confidence and you being disciplined enough to not give into the shot and let it whoop your ass. When you go to shoot something like a 90' frozen cut you give way to much to the shot. You move your body and push the cuestick and do all kind of little quirks and variables that make you inaccurate, stops energy transfer, and makes you miss the ball. Stroke each ball the same way with the same confidence.
A guy here that mentors me a bit has turned my stroke around 180 degrees and in that process my confidence and my shot making ability/cueball control has shot through the roof. I now know that where i am aiming is where i'm supposed to be and where I WILL be hitting that ball.
A guy here that mentors me a bit has turned my stroke around 180 degrees and in that process my confidence and my shot making ability/cueball control has shot through the roof. I now know that where i am aiming is where i'm supposed to be and where I WILL be hitting that ball.
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Zims Rack said:
That is a great start. Now for my questions about what you said.
A pendulum has a dip in the middle. That is because the top of the pendulum (elbow in our case) is stationary and the hanging (arm) doesn't change length. If the movement has a dip like a pendulum, then the tip of the cue would be moving up and down.
or
If the tip is not moving up and down than the elbow would have to move up and down during the stroke.
A pendulum picks up speed coming to the middle of its swing and gradually slows to a stop at each end, like the way your stomach feels in that transition area when on a swing.
or
I've seen more deliberate strokes that seem to be the same speed the entire distance. Very smooth, but very deliberate, like a violin stroke.
Sorry if I'm being a pain.
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That is why your wrist must be loose.
Ever notice how a tighter grip screws up your stroke?
tighter grip = stiffer wrist
Ever notice how a tighter grip screws up your stroke?
tighter grip = stiffer wrist
A good stroke is smooth and straight with a nice follow .
It don't matter how as long as it is. LOL
Whether you slip the cue or drop the elbow, it doesn't matter as long as you shoot straight imo.
It don't matter how as long as it is. LOL
Whether you slip the cue or drop the elbow, it doesn't matter as long as you shoot straight imo.
if you drop your elbow then you bring your shoulder into play. Bringing your shoulder into play is more muscles that could tense up at the wrong time or make your elbow go out of line. It also takes more energy to move your entire arm than it doe s your forarm. You want a fast, efficient, light stroke. The more efficient way to stroke the ball is from the elbow down. It also cuts alot of things that could go wrong out of the equation.
During the pendulum stroke the tip will move up and down, true! That is why when you get into your stance, your cue should be level and the tip should be in the contact position on the CB (but 1/4"-1/2" from CB). This way your backstroke will cause the tip to dip, your forward swing will cause the tip to rise back and be level and at the contact point when you're at the base of the pendulum. As you are moving forward past the base of the pendulum, the tip begins to dip again, correct? Therefore, your finish (follow thru some of you call it) will look like this...tip pointing downward to cloth or touching cloth, your grip wrist should be touching your upper chest at a stopping point.CaptainJR said:
MAKE SENSE??
Zim
One of the guys who taught me once told me to remember 3 words
1-Pendulum
2-Stroke
3-Mechanics
He told me this after telling me how BAD I my stroke was just after EVERY single shot
Fluid, loose, & precise
"There is no try. Only do" - Yoda
1-Pendulum
2-Stroke
3-Mechanics
He told me this after telling me how BAD I my stroke was just after EVERY single shot
Fluid, loose, & precise
"There is no try. Only do" - Yoda
If the pendulum is used properly, your tip will be pointing downward to the cloth or touching the cloth...even if you're applying top english! This can only be true if you come to a complete "finish". A finish is when your grip hand comes to a stop by contacting your chest.
Zim
Zim
If you have to shoot a soft shot or a hard shot, just decrease or increase the pendulum length. You properly do this by adjusting the distance between the ferrule and your fulcrum (pivot point on bridge). This will allow you to use the same pendulum, just shorter/longer distances.
Zim
Zim
The best way to learn, imho, is to watch one of your favorite pros and then try to emulate him/her. Dropping the elbow is something Rempe talks about in one of his videos. If you watch the pros, most of them drop their elbows too. They don't do it for every shot, just those that require maximum stroke.
I think the essence of a good stroke is the velocity of the cue tip through the cb and then having follow through beyond that initial strike. I don't think you have to follow through more than a few inches though.
BTW, if you don't drop your elbow, the tip of your cue will go into the cloth if you try to follow through beyond the cb more than about 3 inches unless you let go of the cue and let the cue do all the work (that's what I do).
I think the essence of a good stroke is the velocity of the cue tip through the cb and then having follow through beyond that initial strike. I don't think you have to follow through more than a few inches though.
BTW, if you don't drop your elbow, the tip of your cue will go into the cloth if you try to follow through beyond the cb more than about 3 inches unless you let go of the cue and let the cue do all the work (that's what I do).
Dropping the elbow is common place in the pro ranks, both men and women but more so with men. I think its fine if after contact on the follow through. It's not something that is taught however because it is a variable.
A good stroke is straight and true and one that makes contact with the c/b exactly where you intended to strike it. Brought on by a slow backswing helps create a smooth transition in gradual acceleration reaching determined velocity at c/b contact. If done correct it is smooth as silk and looks effortless, which it is.
Because of smooth flowing acceleration (which means your not choking the grip and merely swinging the weight) the cue releases naturally, it’s not a forced motion. Your hand is essentially riding the cue. I happen to let my arm go as well, but you don’t have to. Looks sweet when done right and can look real ugly if not. LOL
Rod
A good stroke is straight and true and one that makes contact with the c/b exactly where you intended to strike it. Brought on by a slow backswing helps create a smooth transition in gradual acceleration reaching determined velocity at c/b contact. If done correct it is smooth as silk and looks effortless, which it is.
Because of smooth flowing acceleration (which means your not choking the grip and merely swinging the weight) the cue releases naturally, it’s not a forced motion. Your hand is essentially riding the cue. I happen to let my arm go as well, but you don’t have to. Looks sweet when done right and can look real ugly if not. LOL
Rod
Great thread so far, but i feel like it focuses more on the ingredients of a great stroke rather than the most defining characteristic of a great stroke, and that would be efficiency.
As many have noted, an accurate hit on the cue ball on good follow through are the key, but, over and above that, what do people who have a better stroke really have on me? When I play an player with a truly awesome stroke, I notice that the action they get for any given hit is greater than what I can get. To give a simple example, at a 10 mph cue ball speed, their center ball draw will draw further than mine and their center ball follow will follow further than mine.
When you watch a player with a very efficient stroke, the odds are you are watching a player with a great stroke.
As many have noted, an accurate hit on the cue ball on good follow through are the key, but, over and above that, what do people who have a better stroke really have on me? When I play an player with a truly awesome stroke, I notice that the action they get for any given hit is greater than what I can get. To give a simple example, at a 10 mph cue ball speed, their center ball draw will draw further than mine and their center ball follow will follow further than mine.
When you watch a player with a very efficient stroke, the odds are you are watching a player with a great stroke.
biGhuK said:
There is nothing wrong with dropping your elbow, because every professional does it. When they were learning the game they were no different than us, so why shouldn't we do what they do?
I believe a good stroke is more like a piston rather than a pendilum. A pendilum stroke is wavy, you have to pick the back end of your cue up at the back of the stroke, and your tip dives down in the cloth at the end. That is the ugliest stroke I have ever seen. A piston is straight forward and straight back, as level as possible, now that is a good stroke.
Zims Rack said:
Zim, did you ever notice that no professional player lets his or her tip dive into the cloth? They follow thru a whole lot more than most people do, yet they keep their tips level all throughout the stroke. So if all of the pros do it one way, and they play great pool, why tell people to do it another way?
Agreed.LastTwo said:
I watched Buddy Hall, Davenport and Parica intently after this debate.
They all drop their elbows, albeit in a very controlled manner. Their tips go throught that cueball like a piston. The pendulum is the PRACTICE stroke.
On the final stroke, they skewered the cueball.
Anyone here who can shoot straighter than Hall, Parica or Davenport pls stand up.
Why does the should get involved if dropping the elbow is a natural motion and you are not tensing up?
Rempe shows how it's done in his and Lori Jon's video.
Nothing wrong with slipping the cue either but it's not for everyone.
JoeyInCali said:
I'm still sitting down. LOL Yes mine is a piston stroke. With enough flex in the wrist but not loose, my upper arm goes limp per-say (no tension) with a level follow through and it is controlled. Having a slip stroke makes mine even more level. I picked that up when young from a local strong player and one of my hero's, Jimmy Moore. Not that I think it's necessary to be level and play very good, it's just my style.
Rod