What constitutes when a ball is shoot able behind the line in one pocket?

[Neil]

I find it amazing how many poolplayers, even good ones, don't know the correct rules and/or make things up as they go along.

Exactly! It's partially because so few take the sport seriously and only look at it as a game they happen to enjoy playing. So, they just make up the rules as they go along. How is any outside source going to take pool seriously, when we don't even take it seriously enough to follow a set of rules?? Most don't even have any idea where to find any rules. And, to make it worse, every league out there has to come up with their own set of rules. Bowling? One set of rules. Golf? One set of rules. Pool? Hundreds and hundreds of sets of rules.

Last tournament I was in, I asked what are the rules? Director said BCA rules. During a match, a referee was called over. He made up his own rules, and when questioned, finally admitted they were "modified" BCA rules. He didn't even know what the BCA rules even were, so he ruled by APA rules. Yes, it changed the outcome of the match, too.

edit: In this day and age, when it seems everyone has a phone that connects to the internet, there is NO excuse for not looking up the rules and going by them.

 

[jtompilot]

I agree the rules are base of the ball. However if no line is drawn on the cloth the base is almost impossible to judge and leads to many arguments. The whole ball is easier to judge without lines.

 

[CreeDo]

I agree the rules are base of the ball. However if no line is drawn on the cloth the base is almost impossible to judge and leads to many arguments. The whole ball is easier to judge without lines.

I don't see how it's fewer arguments...

if a ball happens to land so that the very edge is touching the line,
then it's just as difficult to see an imaginary line touching an edge,
as it is to see an imaginary line touching the base.

The difference is, the base is dead nuts easy to see even if the line isn't drawn on the cloth.
But the edge of the ball is always debatable, it changes depending on where you stand and look down on it.

I think what whole ball really means is "if it's even close to debatable, you can't shoot it."

With the base of the ball you can easily prove a close one. With the whole ball you can't prove anything
so it basically means balls that are even close to the line, are just out of play.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If two balls wedge in the pocket below the slate, those balls are not in yet.

Well, no. Both balls are considered to be pocketed.

Which rule set do you play by?

 

[jtompilot]

I don't see how it's fewer arguments...

if a ball happens to land so that the very edge is touching the line,
then it's just as difficult to see an imaginary line touching an edge,
as it is to see an imaginary line touching the base.

The difference is, the base is dead nuts easy to see even if the line isn't drawn on the cloth.
But the edge of the ball is always debatable, it changes depending on where you stand and look down on it.

I think what whole ball really means is "if it's even close to debatable, you can't shoot it."

With the base of the ball you can easily prove a close one. With the whole ball you can't prove anything
so it basically means balls that are even close to the line, are just out of play.

I'm just going by my experience. I play either way but feel the edge is easier to judge.

If you were to place a straight edge from Diamond to Diamond across the table top you can easily see the edge of the ball. You can't do that with the base.

 

[hang-the-9]

Seems like to me the least arguments would be any piece of the ball on the line play it in the kitchen.

Half seems rather ambiguous and I can see a lot of disagreements there.

The issue is that it's a lot harder to see where some floating point of the cueball is on or behind the line. You can see where it touches, but the edge of the ball in space is an estimate. The official rule is where it's on the table.

As I said before, if you use the full ball as the location of the ball, any ball hanging over the pocket is IN the pocket. The location of the ball is where it touches the slate.

It's not just HALF A BALL, it's where the base touches, which happens to be half the ball. You don't try to measure if half a ball is over the line, you just look at the base of it.

 

[hang-the-9]

I'm not sure what the kitchen has to do with a pocket, but if a sliver of a ball was on the slate and the rest in the pocket and it somehow didn't fall, I would say it was on the table. If two balls wedge in the pocket below the slate, those balls are not in yet.

It's the same thing, the rule is the ball has to be behind the line. If anyone plays the full ball behind the line, you are saying the ball is located where the EDGE of the ball is, not where it touches the slate. If you use the rule that the outermost edge of the ball is where it's located, if that outside edge of the ball is over the hole in the pocket, that means the ball is in the pocket.

Physics and common sense say the ball is located where the center of it touches the slate which is why the ball that is hanging is not considered to be in the pocket.

If the official tournament and world rules say it's the base of the pocket, and it's a lot easier to judge where it sits, that's what should be used.

I'm still a bit confused why players that know a lot of rules still go by full ball as where it is. The rule is simple, anything else is "modified" and is the same thing as any other bar type rule. If the object ball base is on the line or in front, it's shootable, if the cueball base is right behind the line, even if 49% of it is hanging over the line, it's "behind the line". I've known that since I started playing and read my first rule book.

 

[Neil]

I'm just going by my experience. I play either way but feel the edge is easier to judge.

If you were to place a straight edge from Diamond to Diamond across the table top you can easily see the edge of the ball. You can't do that with the base.

But you easily can with the very top of the ball, which has to be exactly opposite the base.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

base of the ball

 

[nick serdula]

The base is easiest to see.

With the edge there can always be a beef. And that is why hustlers play edge. They can beef.
No beef for me.
Base,
Nick

 

[ChopStick]

The line is on the bed of the table and does not extend upward. The base of the ball is the only part that can possibly touch it. It is the same in golf.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Out of kitchen

We play ANY Part of ball touches the line , its in the kitchen . Jim

That's the way I was taught in the '50s. The idea was explained to me as, "The contact point cannot be in the kitchen".

 

[fastone371]

The issue is that it's a lot harder to see where some floating point of the cueball is on or behind the line. You can see where it touches, but the edge of the ball in space is an estimate. The official rule is where it's on the table.

As I said before, if you use the full ball as the location of the ball, any ball hanging over the pocket is IN the pocket. The location of the ball is where it touches the slate.

It's not just HALF A BALL, it's where the base touches, which happens to be half the ball. You don't try to measure if half a ball is over the line, you just look at the base of it.

I agree with this, which I also thought was the rule even though I have played both ways because opponent insisted he was correct. If you play edge of ball that makes the kitchen a 4 1/2" wide stripe, not a simple narrow line. If we are talking about the "kitchen boundary" on a BB, that 4 1/2" would be more than 5% of the table!!!!! Thats preposterous.:grin-square:

 

[hang-the-9]

Well, no. Both balls are considered to be pocketed.

Which rule set do you play by?

I think the official rule, which I'm sure Bob would know LOL, is "if you remove either of the balls and the other will fall in, they are counted as IN". Now if they happened to be wedged inside the facings but both bases of the balls on on the slate, those are not in.