What could Efren give up today?

[hemicudas]

Jack was good,,,,,,,,,BUT

The Coach (Jack Cooney) would have to be a person who understands most gamblers and what motivates them and how to access their weaknesses. Jack is probably the only person who I can think of who is a master of psychology not just hustling. It is not an easy job to coach someone, you must have the ability to understand and find a way to be a part of the player's thinking process without creating consternation and disquiet. The knowledge of how best to play is not enough to impart. You must be a master of psychology to be the best coach.
JoeyA

No doubt, Jack, was a master of the game of one pocket, Joey. But, Ronnie Allen was 9-7 or more the favorite due to his superior mind think. Virtually all of the players and knowledgeable one pocket aficionados of days of yore, save the ones who have a grudge against Ronnie, will tell you he was the top one pocket player that ever lived prior to Efren’s emergence. I am thinking Ronnie and John Schmidt would make a hell of a team.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I would rather see a super straight shooting US player and Ronnie Take a shot at Efren. How about John Schmidt? Pretty straight shooter himself?

I think you've got a good ticket right there, Bill. No one is a better shot maker than John Schmidt. He also loves every facet of the game, and his pool ego would not resist coaching from a master in a situation like you've described. Let's sign 'em up!!

Doc

 

[uwate]

Assuming Corey is even coachable by Ronnie (big if) then I would think its a 9-7 game. The 10-7 game at the DCC was pretty close and I dont think you can jump two balls to 8-7 or worse 9-8 even under the best case scenario of Corey and Ronnie meshing well.

 

[Andrew Manning]

I think anyone who has used the word "ego" to explain why Ronnie's coaching wouldn't make Cory Deuel as good as Efren as one-pocket is being very insulting to Cory Deuel. The man's been around pool for quite a number of years, and I'm sure he knows quite well that Ronnie Allen is one of the top 2 one-pocket players ever, and that Cory himself is not. I'm sure he knows that Ronnie knows more about one-pocket than he does. It's pretty rude to imply that Cory thinks too highly of himself to deign to heed the advice of one of the all-time greatest players of the game.

I think the real issue is that a great one-pocket shot is not just something you can tell someone and they'll instantly be able to do it. Ronnie had years and years of experience playing and perfecting the shots he played. He played them in competition because he knew their nuances and exactly how to tweak them to fit the current layout. Cory Deuel hasn't been playing Ronnie Allen's shots his whole career, he's been playing Cory Deuel's shots.

That's why I think Cory Deuel with Ronnie's coaching would be LESS successful than Cory Deuel by himself. You can't just jump into someone else's game in one-pocket; there's too much touch and nuance involved. You can only succeed playing your own game. That's not to say you can't learn from others, but it has to be just that: learning. Over years, Cory Deuel could learn from Ronnie and probably improve his current one-pocket game quite a lot considering his execution abilities. But not by just shooting exactly what Ronnie says. Only by learning how Ronnie plays.

-Andrew

 

[thebighurt]

Imagine Efrens top speed when he decides to stop stalling with everybody. Parica has absolutely NO CHANCE anymore of beating Efren in a 1 pocket ahead set. I love this Efren is good but if so and so.... Please. 5 out of 5 at the Derby city.. Whats next.. Michael Jordan was good but if so and so....

 

[thebighurt]

Everybody knows that Tiger is the best golfer and best winner by far. But what if you took Phil Mickelson(the only golfer that can come close to matching Tiger shot for shot) and you give him Jack Nicklaus(The best winner before Tiger and considered by most the smartest golfer and course manager of all time) as a coach. My thinking on this is that just like with Efren Tiger will raise his game higher, whatever it takes to win. Eventually it would come down to will to win and Tiger like Efren would come through. I remember hearing Joe Weider who started and runs the Mr. Olympia bodybuilding championships. Arnold Schwartzenegger won 6 olympia titles in the late 60's and early 70's and than in the 80's Lee Haney came along and won 7 olympia titles breaking Arnolds record. A reporter asked Joe Weider who he thought was the better bodybuilder and he said that the body styles had changed throughout the years and that when Arnold competed the emphasis was on upper body and the legs were not given as much attention. His opinion was that if you could teleport Arnold into the 80's at that time Arnold would do whatever training he had to and bring his legs up and he would win. He said he never has seen a more determined winner than Arnold and look what he has gone on to accomplish in movies and politics... The point is every once in a while somebody comes along that just has something in their makeup that the rest don't. It is hard to put your finger on it but it is something that makes them win. In pool as all in sports people see somebody playing really great in front them over and over and it sways them to think that that person could beat this guy or that guy because they saw him play unbelievable. All good and great players have times when they look unbeatable and the best ever but it is the guys that do that same thing against the rest of the best in their sport. Tiger, Efren, Jordan, Lance Armstrong, Arnold, Clemens, Federer, Gretzky, Ali,... instead of trying to come up with a reason so and so could beat them, we should just appreciate what we are getting to see while we can because once they are gone they are gone forever

 

[hemicudas]

Golf and One Pocket??? NOT!!!

Everybody knows that Tiger is the best golfer and best winner by far. But what if you took Phil Mickelson(the only golfer that can come close to matching Tiger shot for shot) and you give him Jack Nicklaus(The best winner before Tiger and considered by most the smartest golfer and course manager of all time) as a coach. My thinking on this is that just like with Efren Tiger will raise his game higher, whatever it takes to win. Eventually it would come down to will to win and Tiger like Efren would come through. I remember hearing Joe Weider who started and runs the Mr. Olympia bodybuilding championships. Arnold Schwartzenegger won 6 olympia titles in the late 60's and early 70's and than in the 80's Lee Haney came along and won 7 olympia titles breaking Arnolds record. A reporter asked Joe Weider who he thought was the better bodybuilder and he said that the body styles had changed throughout the years and that when Arnold competed the emphasis was on upper body and the legs were not given as much attention. His opinion was that if you could teleport Arnold into the 80's at that time Arnold would do whatever training he had to and bring his legs up and he would win. He said he never has seen a more determined winner than Arnold and look what he has gone on to accomplish in movies and politics... The point is every once in a while somebody comes along that just has something in their makeup that the rest don't. It is hard to put your finger on it but it is something that makes them win. In pool as all in sports people see somebody playing really great in front them over and over and it sways them to think that that person could beat this guy or that guy because they saw him play unbelievable. All good and great players have times when they look unbeatable and the best ever but it is the guys that do that same thing against the rest of the best in their sport. Tiger, Efren, Jordan, Lance Armstrong, Arnold, Clemens, Federer, Gretzky, Ali,... instead of trying to come up with a reason so and so could beat them, we should just appreciate what we are getting to see while we can because once they are gone they are gone forever

Comparing coaching golf to coaching one pocket is utterly useless. Would Jack Nicklaus suggest to Phil Mickelson, “Try to knock Tiger’s ball off the green with this putt instead of going for the hole“? I don’t think so either. While, Ronnie Allen, just might suggest the same thing to Cory or John.

It has been said many times, “One pocket is like a game of chess”. And, every time it was said, it was true. Efren plays a good game of chess but give me Bobby Fischer as a coach and he not only gets to empty out but gets a rook and a bishop spot.

 

[thebighurt]

Comparing coaching golf to coaching one pocket is utterly useless. Would Jack Nicklaus suggest to Phil Mickelson, “Try to knock Tiger’s ball off the green with this putt instead of going for the hole“? I don’t think so either. While, Ronnie Allen, just might suggest the same thing to Cory or John.

It has been said many times, “One pocket is like a game of chess”. And, every time it was said, it was true. Efren plays a good game of chess but give me Bobby Fischer as a coach and he not only gets to empty out but gets a rook and a bishop spot.

Wow!! Actually comparing chess and 1 pocket is utterly useless. If you were gewtting coaching from Fischer in chess Efren would be playing Fischer. There is no hand eye coordination in chess. Chess is a purely mental game. As far as Phil, what Jack would tell him is when to attack and when to play safe and smart which has always been Phils undoing, which would be exactly what Ronnie would be doing for Corey. If you want to compare chess to something compare it to gin a purely mental game, no hand eye coordination needed.
P.S. you better hope Freddie P.M.'s you

 

[sniper]

In the past I said it and I am saying it again-I will play him EVEN one pocket ,race to four with a shot clock, 4 seconds for the shot. WPBA rules with respect to the shot clock. I play on table 9 at corner pocket in Albuquerque, NM.

That aint one pocket, that's more like speed pool.

 

[JoeyA]

That's why I think Cory Deuel with Ronnie's coaching would be LESS successful than Cory Deuel by himself. You can't just jump into someone else's game in one-pocket; there's too much touch and nuance involved. You can only succeed playing your own game. That's not to say you can't learn from others, but it has to be just that: learning. Over years, Cory Deuel could learn from Ronnie and probably improve his current one-pocket game quite a lot considering his execution abilities. But not by just shooting exactly what Ronnie says. Only by learning how Ronnie plays.

-Andrew

I said Ronnie coaching Corey woud be a negative not a postive and that's why I think Corey would need 10-7. I have seen a lot of matches where the shooter was being coached by someone who knew more about one pocket but did not understand the capabilities and limits of the other person and failed to build on his abilities etc.
JoeyA

 

[derekdisco]

I like Corey in some sort of circus spot. Like Corey uses the bridge on every shot, and Efren can't run more than 2 balls per inning.

 

[satman]

I had to vote for the 9-8. I think if they were going to do this, it would all be laid out in advance and the rule explained that Corey has to follow the advice. It would be a great matchup. But as was mentioned before, I can't imagine it ever taking place. Like Freddy said, Ronnie came up in the old days. I can't imagine him giving away his closely guarded secrets. Strategy is something that is hard to pass to someone who's already playing at Corey's level even if he would. My 2 cents. Sam

 

[hemicudas]

I had to vote for the 9-8. I think if they were going to do this, it would all be laid out in advance and the rule explained that Corey has to follow the advice. It would be a great matchup. But as was mentioned before, I can't imagine it ever taking place. Like Freddy said, Ronnie came up in the old days. I can't imagine him giving away his closely guarded secrets. Strategy is something that is hard to pass to someone who's already playing at Corey's level even if he would. My 2 cents. Sam

I agree with the 9-8, satman but if Ronnie Allen is cutting BIG money with a guy he is coaching at his age,,,,,,,,,,he is going to bring out every trick he ever had in his book.

In a run-out situation Ronnie is going to say, Knockum on in son. But, off a tough break Ronnie is the best person on earth with the knowledge to turn that break around in his favor. This is a game that needs to be put into action.

 

[Bobolu]

What everone does not understand is that the top players today play better than those of yesteryear. Corey could give Roney advice on how to play the game, so forget about Ronnie coaching. Corey still needs 10-7, 9-7 on his break to beat the greatist player that ever lived.

 

[hemicudas]

What everone does not understand is that the top players today play better than those of yesteryear. Corey could give Roney advice on how to play the game, so forget about Ronnie coaching. Corey still needs 10-7, 9-7 on his break to beat the greatist player that ever lived.

Note this guy's 1st post, LOL.

 

[accdealer]

Let me sum this all up for everyone. The more money bet, the more weight that Efren could give up. It's that simple.

Ronnie may have been a great 1 pocket player yesterday and today, especially for the cheese, but i assure you that Efren in his ripe old 50's can easily handle the younger Ronnie Allen.

 

[Jamey Martin]

it all depends on what side ronnie has HIS money on.......LOL

 

[smashmouth]

some of you are vastly overating this "coaching" thing

Now if Cory were to say have 3 months of tutoring from Ronnie, that's a different story, but just have Ronnie show up to coach a game would turn into a communications cluster****

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

on more obvious cirscumstances, it is most likely that Corey would prefer Efren as his couch rather than Ron !