What do you guys think of my cue?

[lord_shar]

While I agree that cue makers shouldn't knock off other cue maker's unique styles, there are many reasons for customers go to third party cue makers requesting similar styles to SW, Gus/Bary, etc... Those buyers want another cue maker's particular style, but the most sought-after makers with their unique styles tend to have wait lists in the 5+ year range, or the particular cue maker is no longer taking orders, deceased, etc. The bottom line is that the desired cue may no longer be realistically available from the original source. When this is the case, I can't really fault such shoppers, especially given how I was in a similar boat only one year ago.

 

[classiccues]

Yeah and the best part is the McWorter for sale in the other thread looks a hell of a lot like its got some serious South West knocking off going on..

I guess everyone does it, right Jimmy... even your hero's..

Joe (---ready for another 25 page cue design flame fest

 

[cueaddicts]

Well, I guess it depends on your knowledge and exposuer, but I'll give a quick list.
1) Josey
2) Cogs
3) Southwest
4) Fanelli
6) Ginacue
7) McWorter
8) Samsara
9) TAD
10) Bender

I could go on, I could go back to the guys no longer making cues, I could talk about newer guys, less known guys that all have on thing they do that sets them apart, but again I'll just say that anyone who thinks that there are no new designs and nothing new left to do just haven't seen enough cues. Those who defend the pratice are never those being ripped off it's normally those doing the ripping that try to excuse the behavior.

Jim

YAWN....

Yeah, yeah, we know where you stand.

Sean

 

[Fast Lenny]

I know that there are some original cuemakers but all the ones you named have been around for awhile.As for alot of new guys i dont see too many making anything that we havent already seen that was similar.I dont know why my post went from asking opinions on my cue to a flame thread about cue design theft,did i say i wanted an exact copy?,i said i wanted a SW "style" cue "like" Ga Young Kims,of course i would want Greg to add his own touches and to pick out the woods,the good thing is he is willing to brainstorm with me on ideas,i am not just sending a pic and saying make me a copy.Well back on track if i may,thanks for all the compliments on my cue,and to the "flamer",i guess it was just my turn to have my thread hijacked and burned.
Question for Classic Cue,will you be set up at Valley Forge to sell cues?

 

[classiccues]

I know that there are some original cuemakers but all the ones you named have been around for awhile.As for alot of new guys i dont see too many making anything that we havent already seen that was similar.I dont know why my post went from asking opinions on my cue to a flame thread about cue design theft,did i say i wanted an exact copy?,i said i wanted a SW "style" cue "like" Ga Young Kims,of course i would want Greg to add his own touches and to pick out the woods,the good thing is he is willing to brainstorm with me on ideas,i am not just sending a pic and saying make me a copy.Well back on track if i may,thanks for all the compliments on my cue,and to the "flamer",i guess it was just my turn to have my thread hijacked and burned.
Question for Classic Cue,will you be set up at Valley Forge to sell cues?

Yes, the pool table magic booth. We will be there. Hey, I thought Gallery closed down? How long did / have you been shooting there?

Joe

 

[Fast Lenny]

Great,i look forward to seeing your fine collection in the flesh.
Gallery is still alive and well,i have been going there for the past year,alot of fairly good players and some action too.A place that closed down recently was a place ironically called "Classic Cue" in Middletown,NY,I used to work the place M-F about a year ago,that is where i got my start to the game,but i like Gallery,better players to learn from,you cant get better playing lambs and lames. Do you know anyone from Gallery?,Dave or Earl?

 

[8-ball Rat]

....

First and foremost, nice cue! Toying around with getting one of his....as soon as I get a few more that are at the top of my list.

I came in late on this, and just read through all the back and forth going on....and can say this:

When I started playing, I started VERY LOW on the cue totem pole (a fiberglass bonded cue comes to mind......yuck!). I did this, however, because I could not afford anything better. Once I learned how to shoot, I saved my money to get into a nicer production cue. A day came where I started to take it seriously...and the custom cue quest began. Going through all the cue possibilities made me realize a few things....

1. I would NEVER be able to afford some of the customs I would have killed to own.

2. Plenty of cuemakers out there had very similar (and yes, even total knockoff) designs to those of the "old masters," or higher end guys.

3. I wanted to have a certain look, but could only put so much into it....based entirely on what little money I had.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think EVERY cue should look the same...nor do I think all the "up and comers" should copy what has already been done....

but from a business standpoint, they build what sells.

From a customer's standpoint, you'll buy the nicest looking (and hopefully shooting) cue you can....and if it means you spend $400 on a cue that looks like a $2500 cue...you've gotten what makes you happy.....and isn't this game/hobby all about it making you happy???

(Given, there are those who have BOTH sides to contend with).

JMHO,

Mark (Rat)

 

[classiccues]

Great,i look forward to seeing your fine collection in the flesh.
Gallery is still alive and well,i have been going there for the past year,alot of fairly good players and some action too.A place that closed down recently was a place ironically called "Classic Cue" in Middletown,NY,I used to work the place M-F about a year ago,that is where i got my start to the game,but i like Gallery,better players to learn from,you cant get better playing lambs and lames. Do you know anyone from Gallery?,Dave or Earl?

No, sorry about that. I was thinking of a place in Kingston, Joe and Frank I think were the owners. But we are friends with Paul Rubino who you might see from time to time.

Joe

 

[Fast Lenny]

The pool room in Kingston was Stockade Billiards,Teddy Garrahan was the house pro for a bit,its a shame they closed,tough business,they had alot of money into the place,it was a nice looking pool hall,just no players.
Yes,i have met Rubino at Classic Cue,nice guy,we spoke briefly,alittle about poker,3 cushion,and about making me a titlist conersion,when i said i wanted a leather wrap he looked at me like i was crazy,he doesnt like wraps on cues.

 

[JimBo]

While I agree that cue makers shouldn't knock off other cue maker's unique styles, there are many reasons for customers go to third party cue makers requesting similar styles to SW, Gus/Bary, etc... Those buyers want another cue maker's particular style, but the most sought-after makers with their unique styles tend to have wait lists in the 5+ year range, or the particular cue maker is no longer taking orders, deceased, etc. The bottom line is that the desired cue may no longer be realistically available from the original source. When this is the case, I can't really fault such shoppers, especially given how I was in a similar boat only one year ago.

LOL well I guess since you were in the same boat and you did it, then it must be ok. LOL How many times must I say show me a CUE MAKER who has been copied and doesn't mind, not a buyer who did it and wants to explain and not a Maker who lacks originality and does the stealing.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Yeah and the best part is the McWorter for sale in the other thread looks a hell of a lot like its got some serious South West knocking off going on..

I guess everyone does it, right Jimmy... even your hero's..

Joe (---ready for another 25 page cue design flame fest

No Flames Joe, just an opinion that is shared by many true artist, not fake cue dealers like you who are the offenders trying to excuse the behavior just because you do it. Now run along and try to fool all the clueless masses that you are the CEO of Classiccues.com, stick with all your *US* and *WE'S* LOL then you can carry Mark's cues for him;-P Love ya buddy.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

YAWN....

Yeah, yeah, we know where you stand.

Sean

The real Yawn is how you ran to the aid of your butt buddy Joey. I guess you guys have more in common then I thought :-D you guys crack me up. At least you own a few cues Sean, I guess I'll give you credit for that.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Great,i look forward to seeing your fine collection in the flesh.

LOL Joe he wants to see *YOUR* collection LOL LOL.
Better just ignore that one and change topics (US/WE/LOL)

Jim

 

[JimBo]

First and foremost, nice cue! Toying around with getting one of his....as soon as I get a few more that are at the top of my list.

Who's on your list?

I came in late on this, and just read through all the back and forth going on....and can say this:

When I started playing, I started VERY LOW on the cue totem pole (a fiberglass bonded cue comes to mind......yuck!). I did this, however, because I could not afford anything better. Once I learned how to shoot, I saved my money to get into a nicer production cue. A day came where I started to take it seriously...and the custom cue quest began. Going through all the cue possibilities made me realize a few things....

1. I would NEVER be able to afford some of the customs I would have killed to own.

It's sad if you'd kill for a cue.

2. Plenty of cuemakers out there had very similar (and yes, even total knockoff) designs to those of the "old masters," or higher end guys.

Like who??

3. I wanted to have a certain look, but could only put so much into it....based entirely on what little money I had.

I believe this to be true for everyone.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think EVERY cue should look the same...nor do I think all the "up and comers" should copy what has already been done....

but from a business standpoint, they build what sells.

From a legal and ethical standpoint stealing is wrong, even if it's what sells, that is no defense for stealing or lack of originality and talent.

From a customer's standpoint, you'll buy the nicest looking (and hopefully shooting) cue you can....and if it means you spend $400 on a cue that looks like a $2500 cue...you've gotten what makes you happy.....and isn't this game/hobby all about it making you happy???

No, sorry life isn't about what's happy, there are certain laws that need to be followed or sociaty would be crazy, that's how the animals live, take what you want and just do what makes you happy, we aren't animals.

(Given, there are those who have BOTH sides to contend with).

JMHO,

Mark (Rat)

I happen to really like and want a Lamborghini, I can't afford one so I don't drive one, I don't think I can steal one just cause it makes me happy, and chevy can't stal the design and make one for 1/5 the price to sell to me. You see the thing that's never mentioned is the reason why it happens isn't because it's ok and legal, the reason it's done is because there just isn't enough money in cues to make it worth while to sue. In the past it's happened and people have made threats to sue (Skins told a story not to long ago). Comon sense tells you that spending 5-10K on a lawyer to sue a guy who made a $500 cue just isn't worth it. But again we are not really key players here, the guys who try to defend it because they did it and the wanna be dealers who do it to make sales mean nothing. Show me 1 cuemaker who has had an original designed knocked off and thinks it's fine, let's hear him post that he feels it was fine. We've heard from Skins who does design work and knows how much work goes into it, now just have 1 post who thinks it's ok.

Jim

 

[lord_shar]

LOL well I guess since you were in the same boat and you did it, then it must be ok. LOL How many times must I say show me a CUE MAKER who has been copied and doesn't mind, not a buyer who did it and wants to explain and not a Maker who lacks originality and does the stealing.

Jim

I doubt Gus presently cares about anyone styling their cues after his older prototypes, especially given his current state of health.

EDIT: This really isn't our thread to hijack into another irrelevant tangent. The OP wanted our opinions about his cue, and it got detoured into this. The style-vs-plagiarism argument needs its own separate thread.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Damn,my threads been hijacked,talk about cue design theft,what about thread theft,damn Jimbo,your a thread flaming thief!

 

[cueaddicts]

The real Yawn is how you ran to the aid of your butt buddy Joey. I guess you guys have more in common then I thought :-D you guys crack me up. At least you own a few cues Sean, I guess I'll give you credit for that.

Jim

Jimbo, apparently, my yawn comments hit a nerve and now we've all stumbled upon something you do know something about.....butt buddies. Funny how it takes so little for your true colors to come out. You had me snowed under....I never figured you for that type.

Sean

 

[JimBo]

I doubt Gus presently cares about anyone styling their cues after his older prototypes, especially given his current state of health.

I find that to be rude and disrespectfull, and as far as I know there is a Szamboti still making cues.

EDIT: This really isn't our thread to hijack into another irrelevant tangent. The OP wanted our opinions about his cue, and it got detoured into this. The style-vs-plagiarism argument needs its own separate thread.

I agree and let me say I'm not saying your cues is a copy of any Szamboti that I know of, but to defend it if it were by saying it's ok to steal from someone who is dead is rediculous.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Jimbo, apparently, my yawn comments hit a nerve and now we've all stumbled upon something you do know something about.....butt buddies. Funny how it takes so little for your true colors to come out. You had me snowed under....I never figured you for that type.

Sean

No, not at all Sean, no nerve hit. I do find it odd that every time the topic comes up Joe has to try to defend his actions and you run to his aid. I'm just sharing an opinion held by many creative people, while you guys seem to jump threw hoops just on a guilty conscious. If you were really bored you'd ignore it, O wait your pal Joey jumped so you have prove what a pal you are LOL. Must be a cue luggers union thing , you guys make your bosses very proud.

Jim

 

[pharaoh68]

Well, I guess it depends on your knowledge and exposuer, but I'll give a quick list.
1) Josey
2) Cogs
3) Southwest
4) Fanelli
6) Ginacue
7) McWorter
8) Samsara
9) TAD
10) Bender


Jim

Thats a pretty good list Jimbo. Each of those guys have very distinct designs and distinct looks. Especially Fanelli. You can recognize those butterflies from across any room. But here are some other names that I would add to the list also:

11) Richard Chudy (RC3)
12) Jerry McWorter
13) Bill Schick