What Do You Hate To See In A Cue?
- Thread starter BillYards
- Start date
Brianpharaoh68 said:
I was waiting for you to jump in...... You want to stick you nose in, fine.....
Maybe I can learn something from a 20 something year old KID... Up until this year everything you owned was $500 or less... Now you and your 20 something year old buddy are teaching everyone on this forum about poor craftsmanship...
You know quality by looking at pictures.... Real smart... You haven't ever even taken a test drive on a Szamboti Cue... Only Szamboti you probably held in your hands was mine... You and your buddy have had almost no contact with Szamboti cues, but give an opinion on pictures..........
Your buddy tried to apologize.......... So Brian you think it was OK saying.. I don't think it's fair that someone who does such a bad job deserves a 7 year wait list and to charge that much for his cues, but that's just my opinion, of course. Did you FORGET he said that...
He doesn't deserve a waiting list....Because of 2 cues....
Stupidest thing I've heard.... and Brian agree's with him...
Barry was involved inmaking quality cues when the both you were still shitting yourselves...
Ken
pharaoh68
Banned
HighEndCues said:
Ken-
I'm curious as to why you are taking things so personally. After all, I never agreed with what Roger said about Barry Szamboti. All I said was that I saw the pictures he was referring to and I saw the "apparant flaws" on those cues. I never said anything negative about Barry or anything regarding his reputation.
As far as my address to you, I was only pointing out that I feel I have every right as does every person who has ever picked up a Bushka or a Szamboti or any other high end cue, to make a judgement on it. I wasn't attacking Barry. I wasn't even attacking Jeff. And I certainly wasn't attacking you. In fact, I'm not even sure how you took it that way. So, why get so mad about it? I can't figure that out.
And just what is your seemingly ongoing gripe with me? I mean, it seems like every time I see you, you have something to say about something I wrote here on AZ. Now you start your post by saying that you were waiting for me to jump in. I'm racking my brain here Ken and, to the best of my knowledge I can't think of a single thing I have ever done to offend you. So, what's the deal?
And yes. I have hit with a Gus and a Barry. But what does that matter because I never said they sucked! I never said they were great! I never said anything except "I saw what Roger was talking about" (or words to that affect).
So now I'm teaching everybody on this forum about craftsmanship? How?!?! By saying that Roger gave an opinion on a thread that asked for opinions and thus, he shouldn't have to apologize???
The bottom line is I never said a word about Barry, a word about Jeff (except that he takes great photos and has a nice collection), or a word about you. I simply defended a friend sort of like you are doing for Barry. And there's nothing wrong with that is there? So why jump down my throat and start tearing me apart? I never said a thing about you.
Confused,
Brian
HighEndCues said:
I wasn't apologizing to you, you ass. It was a general apology for making a blanket statement about all Barry's cues, which was a mistake, and also for my overall vitriolic tone...but my opinion certainly hasn't changed. I suppose it matters to me that he allowed those cues to leave his shop, when I know dozens and dozens of cuemakers who would start over rather than let that kind of work compromise their reputation. In that context I believe his demand is undeserved.
I'm going to reply to some very valid, adult responses to my posts in a moment, but before I do I have to address your asinine, immature involvement in this thread thus far.
You chose to jump in and get personal right off the bat. Your motto seems to be Stay silent, Don't Rock the Established Cuemaker's Boat. You've offered nothing, absolutely nothing concrete in defense of the cues in question; instead, you questioned my credentials in the "industry," then offered up a list of inane criteria/qualifications I need before I can voice my opinion. These include (from what I can gather) an extensive collection of big-name cues, a dollar amount one needs to spend in cues, and an anathematic attitude to any cuemaker who isn't an established name.
And incredibly, you then ask me "I want to know who is in your ear.. Who do you buy from?" as if we're in a Le Carre novel, and I'm a secret cue agent working for an enemy dealer!
Well to answer your question, no one is "in my ear," and I've bought every cue directly from cuemakers. Unlike you, I have no cues to sell!
Please unbunch your panties, and try to behave like an adult. I sincerely hope you realize that your online persona will affect your reputation as a person (same goes for me), and as a wheeler and dealer in cues (your territory entirely).
-Roger
JimBo said:
And this is one of the aforementioned responses I will happily address.
"Agendas." I suppose we all have one, and I think hidden agendas is what you're trying to say. Well, you have a pretty clear grasp on my point of view, though the intensity is not quite as you depicted. I won't "stop at nothing," though I clearly have no problem citing an example from an established CM to make my point. My agenda hinges on nothing more than my own best (and worse) judgement.
As for Barry's reputation/demand, I hold steadfast to my opinion that there are others more deserving, and that's not limited to SW. But at least you recognize my right to that opinion, which I appreciate.
Now...the inlays in question were indeed into lighter-colored wood, and I know that requires a higher level of precision than inlaying into Ebony (no cover-ups) but my point is he shouldn't have attempted the cue if he couldn't do it clean. Or rather, once he attempted, and failed to do it clean, he should've scrapped the project.
Of course, if Sean's explanation is true, and what I saw was the result of Barry's lacquer finish raising over time, then this is all moot. But too bad those cues/pictures belonged to a man with no spine, and are no longer available for us to study.
Given all that, the SECOND cue in question sported windows in the buttsleeve that were crooked. Specifically, the top veneers deviated from a straight line, and it seemed a part of it curved up and then back down. I want to keep from sounding rude but I think the best policy there, yet again, is to scrap the cue. If these were indeed a couple of early cues, then I wonder if he hit any bumps when he sold them at the time. To me, they were very ambitious projects which were apparently beyond his abilities, at least at the time, and he failed to deliver...in which case I would rather see him wait until he's perfected whatever execution needed perfection before attempting such delicate/intricate work.
-Roger
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icon
Banned
i see! and what you are doing takes a lot of guts and integrity?buddha162 said:
what are you trying to prove and for what reason?
if you really want to compare skip and barrys work get a recent example of both and compare them in person.
you dont compare workmanship in pictures.
but you dont really seem interested in comparing their work.
all you care about is seeing a couple pictures of my personal cues so you can ridicule them.
and in your eyes this makes you a man!
in my eyes your about as small as they come!
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Speaking of agendas...I just got my Blue Book last night and after a quick run through, I got the feeling that there is a big buddy system in place for guys to get their cues into the photos in the book. I also felt that the omission of Black Boar and inclusion of other production cues was flakey.
Also, regarding Jimbo's (and many others') taste in cues... check out the cues in the color section. In many cases I don't think they are the best examples of the cuemakers work. I saw inlay after inlay with rounded corners instead of sharp intersections. And what is up with the scrimshaw dolphins?? I know that girls need cues too, but how can a cuemaker live with himself after producing that wussy garbage?? And to have it posted for eternity in the Blue Book? I would throw myself on my jump cue to avoid further dishonor to my family.
Really, I was left with a horrible taste in my mouth and am considering sending the book back. I went to bed not wanting to see another pool cue, which has never happened to me before.
I will post more on the 'Boo Book' or 'Poo Book' after I have read it all.
I will also post photos after I have shredded it.
Also, regarding Jimbo's (and many others') taste in cues... check out the cues in the color section. In many cases I don't think they are the best examples of the cuemakers work. I saw inlay after inlay with rounded corners instead of sharp intersections. And what is up with the scrimshaw dolphins?? I know that girls need cues too, but how can a cuemaker live with himself after producing that wussy garbage?? And to have it posted for eternity in the Blue Book? I would throw myself on my jump cue to avoid further dishonor to my family.
Really, I was left with a horrible taste in my mouth and am considering sending the book back. I went to bed not wanting to see another pool cue, which has never happened to me before.
I will post more on the 'Boo Book' or 'Poo Book' after I have read it all.
I will also post photos after I have shredded it.
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BillYards said:
I don't have much to add to this thread, since I don't recall seeing the photos and maybe never will. I don't see Roger doing anything other than saying his opinion on the photos. And I see guys like Ken defending Barry.
I don't think Barry needs defense. In my book, he's one of the best cuemakers in history, and doesn't get the recognition he deserves, probably because he's Gus' son and will always be looked upon in that respect, whether it's coat tails or whatnot. Be that as it may, if a cue has glue lines, pointing it out isn't a no-no.
But I digress. To this point from "Bill Yards" quoted, I might be able to add some food for thought. In the short time frame that I have to write an article on a certain cue maker, the cues that might be available for photos aren't always easily accessible. So, often, the photos that go to print, to be posted for eternity in InsidePOOL often are not representative of the cuemaker's best or favorite work. With the enormous undertaking to schedule photo shoots for the Blue Book for a zillion cuemakers, the photos are what they are. Unfortunately.
Fred
Fred, By "photo shoots", are you referring to the color section or the black/white section?Cornerman said:
TellsItLikeItIs said:
Color.
For example, at the first MidWest Expo a few years ago, Martyne had a setup upstairs for the cuemakers who were in attendance to come up and do photo shoots. That means that whatever cues they brought, those were the ones going to be in the Blue Book III. Unless she was willing to do multiple photo shoots of the same cue maker, then either they would have to do one themselves or live with whatever the results were.
Fred
The bottom line is I never said a word about Barry, a word about Jeff (except that he takes great photos and has a nice collection), or a word about you. I simply defended a friend sort of like you are doing for Barry. And there's nothing wrong with that is there? So why jump down my throat and start tearing me apart? I never said a thing about you.
Confused,
Brian[/QUOTE]
Brian,
I will then apoligize to you for coming at you so harshly.. I thought you were agreeing with such statements like "He doesn't deserve a 7 year wait". This statement has nothing to do with the 2 cues in question... This was my point.... That is considered a personal attack... I will have to go back to ignoring people who have opinions on cues they know NOTHING about, except for seeing a pictures.... They should become Movie Critics...
Best,
Ken
Confused,
Brian[/QUOTE]
Brian,
I will then apoligize to you for coming at you so harshly.. I thought you were agreeing with such statements like "He doesn't deserve a 7 year wait". This statement has nothing to do with the 2 cues in question... This was my point.... That is considered a personal attack... I will have to go back to ignoring people who have opinions on cues they know NOTHING about, except for seeing a pictures.... They should become Movie Critics...
Best,
Ken
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