What Do You Look For in a Pool Instructor

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you hit on the difference between an instructor and a coach.

The way I see it, an instructor is for beginners and intermediate players. Players who never had a proper stance or cue delivery.

A coach is for higher level and pro players, who don't need the changing of fundamentals. Maybe a polish.
Yes, I think there's a difference between the two also. But whether you're an instructor or a coach or both, you have to be able to read the player you're trying to help.

In every sport there are instructors who teach at high levels. So why would you limit them in pool to just beginners and intermediates?
 

VTtuna

Member
I want to dissect the mental game , not reconstruct my stroke. Different instructors will be more or less favorable to this style of teaching . At this point in the game for myself, I’m currently more interested in the vast mental intricacies of the game
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, I think there's a difference between the two also. But whether you're an instructor or a coach or both, you have to be able to read the player you're trying to help. In every sport there are instructors who teach at high levels. So why limit them in pool to just beginners and intermediates?
True. But have you ever instructed someone who had such poor fundamentals you had to tear them down and rebuild?
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Someone you like, trust and admire for their pool skills. A great pool player does not necessarily mean they are even a good instructor. But a great instructor had better be a good pool player. It’s not like a golf instructor who can teach the game but may not have the skills, nor desire, to compete at the pro level. Imparting knowledge must be effectively communicated.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
True. But have you ever instructed someone who had such poor fundamentals you had to tear them down and rebuild?
That's a good question but a tough question. Yes, but only within the limits of what that player can handle, which goes back to knowing your player. A teacher's job is to help the player be the most successful player that he can be --- and that doesn't always mean changing everything that might be considered wrong in theory.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Oh goodie, I need money to pay for some pool lessons. There's a cute little APA 6 down at the local room that may be able to teach an old dog like me a few tricks. Might help me get up...raise my Fargo I mean. Getting back to the Bond stuff let me share a couple links that might shed some light on how and why you may view the world just a bit differently than most.
https://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=1820'
Seems you actually believe you're a secret agent out to save the world. Hey, someone has to do it, right? Everybody has to do something. My only question would be---What do the neighbors think about the surveillance directed at them? They okay with helping you become the next JB?

Then there's this https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/2005/10/07/a-bonding-experience/31462800007/
Maybe you need the spy cameras to keep an eye on your trinkets. Anyhow, now that I've seen those articles I feel a little better. It's now easier to understand why you make so many outlandish statements about pool teaching and techniques. You think life is one big movie where anything is possible and you'll prevail against insurmountable odds.
Save the world, improve a B to an A almost instantly, all in a days work for Bond, James Bond.
Since you're such a big fan of my Bond work, I have two books about Bond in print with many positive ratings and reviews, plus OO7 books with contributions from me (editing/writing):

*For Your Ears Only
*James Bond In Our Sights: A Close Look At A View To A Kill
*Licence Expired
*Nobody Does it Better: The Complete, Uncensored, Unauthorized Oral History of James Bond
*The Many Facets of Diamonds Are Forever: James Bond on Page and Screen
*The Ultimate James Bond Fan Book
*Vic Flick, Guitarman: From James Bond to The Beatles and Beyond

. . . and Bond books with acknowledgments for my contributions:

*007 Exotic Locations: Key West
*Angelique Pettyjohn: The Sci-Fi Siren Who Dared Love Elvis and Other Stars
*Double-O Dining: A James Bond Cookbook
*Merchants of Death: A Kate Dawson Thriller
*Ripley's Believe It or Not
*The World Is Not Enough: A Biography of Ian Fleming

PS. Speaking of "Believe It or Not!" the VH-1 piece is a spoof, I don't really spy on my neighbors, I "don't believe" you are that dumb as to think so.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Lou. Dalton used to tell me about his admiration for Tugboat and how he was his inspiration to play also, and his first teacher. I think a lot of the things he showed me during our time together were probably from Tugboat.

As for your question to players --- What do you want from a teacher --- I can answer that, even though I'm a teacher, because I'm a player --- not some pansy player --- I mean a real player, who ground it out every day on a pool table and survived in the sub culture of pool rooms of NYC for a few decades, for better or for worse, experiencing both great and horrible advice from people with good intentions.

What I want from a teacher is someone who could step into my shoes and read my mind, just by watching me play. I don't care what they think is right or wrong for the universe or even for themselves. I want them to become me, understand my stumbling blocks, and help me fix my issues both physically and mentally. The two must go together. When I train instructors, I test them on their ability to read a player. This is key.

For example: You can't tell a rhythm player to take a longer pause at the end of his backstroke unless you want to kill both his game and his spirit. I've seen teachers do this. There are better solutions for those types of players. Sadly, most teachers are terrible at reading players. Some are born with the talent but for those who are not, a lot of it can be learned if the teacher is willing.

Dalton Leong and Hawaiian Brian would occasionally pass through the Bay Area and hover at a room I frequented.

Had the chance to go to breakfast with them late one night/early one morning after the pool room closed. I was just a kid listening to their road stories. Terrible to hear Dalton was murdered.

And I have to commend you on your general philosophy on reading players. I especially applaud your observation that you cannot automatically weld a pause into every players stroke.

Brava!

Lou Figueroa
 
Last edited:

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Looks like I "forgot it" again. Since you'd never just make stuff up, I'm sure you have a link...?

pj
chgo
You forgot a three-week discussion where I diagrammed that the path taken is C-D, not C-E, when presetting the wrist from supination (for right-handers)? Which, of course, would require less adjustment for aim than a C-E strike with the same amount of english? Really?

Pool Diagrams - Simplfied Backhand English - 3 Backhand.JPG

Shame on you.

I think you are making stuff up!
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Dalton Leong and Hawaiian Brian would occasionally pass through the Bay Area and hover at a room I frequented.

Had the chance to go to breakfast with them late one night/early one morning after the pool room closed. I was just a kid listening to their road stories. Terrible to hear Dalton was murdered.

And I have to commend you on your general philosophy on reading players. I especially applaud your observation that you cannot automatically weld a pause into every players stroke.

Brava!

Lou Figueroa
I agree. One of the traps for students--and I'm not accusing teachers, they may be unaware of the issue--is for those teachers who say "EVERY student must X" that practicing for months with X will likely improve their game, no matter if X is a needed fundamental.

I don't teach SAP because not everyone has a pronounced pause.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
You forgot a three-week discussion where I diagrammed that the path taken is C-D, not C-E, when presetting the wrist from supination (for right-handers)? Which, of course, would require less adjustment for aim than a C-E strike with the same amount of english? Really?

View attachment 702088
Shame on you.

I think you are making stuff up!
That utter nonsense again? As I recall, I pointed out the obvious fact that the stick can only move that way if your bridge hand slides forward with it - ridiculous, even for you.

Saying I agreed with it is simply dishonest - color me unsurprised.

pj
chgo
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You forgot a three-week discussion where I diagrammed that the path taken is C-D, not C-E, when presetting the wrist from supination (for right-handers)? Which, of course, would require less adjustment for aim than a C-E strike with the same amount of english? Really?

View attachment 702088
Shame on you.

I think you are making stuff up!
Here we go again. I think a new sub forum is in order. SFF, Shermans Fantasies and Fairy Tales.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree. One of the traps for students--and I'm not accusing teachers, they may be unaware of the issue--is for those teachers who say "EVERY student must X" that practicing for months with X will likely improve their game, no matter if X is a needed fundamental.

I don't teach SAP because not everyone has a pronounced pause.


I had a nodding acquaintance with a couple of the major SPF instructors. Both of them at different times told me the pause was basically a training technique and most people's pause would get shorter and shorter with time. My pause was long gone, While it has some uses and I might still pause, even an extended pause, when I need a lot of touch that is when it seems most wrong when I look at it objectively, my main objection to the pause is the disconnect between practice strokes and the shot when you artificially add in a pause.

If people pause and like the pause, cool. If they don't like a pause, that is fine too.

Hu
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a nodding acquaintance with a couple of the major SPF instructors. Both of them at different times told me the pause was basically a training technique and most people's pause would get shorter and shorter with time. My pause was long gone, While it has some uses and I might still pause, even an extended pause, when I need a lot of touch that is when it seems most wrong when I look at it objectively, my main objection to the pause is the disconnect between practice strokes and the shot when you artificially add in a pause.

If people pause and like the pause, cool. If they don't like a pause, that is fine too.

Hu
I'm not an SPF instructor so I'm a little confused about this methodology. I think that teaching someone a longer pause at the top of their backstroke for training purposes and expecting them to shorten it over time on their own just messes with their stroke timing. You're ingraining one habit into a player's subconscious mind and then you expect them to break that habit gradually over time. And once they break that habit, then what? Do they go back to where they were originally, or do they now have a new and improved stroke timing? Sorry, it doesn't compute in my pea brain. Maybe that's why I'm not mentioned as one of those talented instructors.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bbb

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
my main objection to the pause is the disconnect between practice strokes and the shot when you artificially add in a pause.
I 😉 Concur. I can speak to the forced pause being not only futile but detrimental.
I can also Concur with, "It wasn't a pause, I was just Savoring. " :😉
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
You're ingraining one habit into a player's subconscious mind and then you expect them to break that habit gradually over time.
Uh not exactly. It's more like a natural evolution. More like starting with center ball. My pause is to allow the computer one final check. Through the reps of practice that is first mechanically sound then mental. The habitual pause is proved by so many Champions. The blazing speed of The Rocket is a thing of beauty.
Watch Ronnie's tempo in the Championship game with Judd Trump. Notice where he varies the tempo. 🤷
So I would teach the process (secret recipe). The pause is an artifact of the process. My pause is longer 'cause the computers are down a few brain cells. Butt don't ever think you can beat my Slow game.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Uh not exactly. It's more like a natural evolution. More like starting with center ball. My pause is to allow the computer one final check. Through the reps of practice that is first mechanically sound then mental. The habitual pause is proved by so many Champions. The blazing speed of The Rocket is a thing of beauty.
Watch Ronnie's tempo in the Championship game with Judd Trump. Notice where he varies the tempo. 🤷
So I would teach the process (secret recipe). The pause is an artifact of the process. My pause is longer 'cause the computers are down a few brain cells. Butt don't ever think you can beat my Slow game.
You guys are all over the place. It's really hard to follow you when you keep jumping around. One final check at the end of your backstroke? What are you checking in the middle of your execution stroke? What are you even debating me about? The discussion is about the pause at the end of the backstroke that certain SPF instructors are recommending be longer for training purposes and then over time the player will shorten the time of the pause. So what 'Uh not exactly ' are you referring to? You're not saying anything about the training issue. Instead you bring up Ronnie. Is he in training?
 
Last edited:

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the majority using the pause, benefit by virtue of less distortion on delivery. Just that, if they haven't developed a mental process to go along with the rhythm. If it's like wait, jerk, watch, that dun make much sense.
Speaking of instruction, I copied Gorst's delivery. Melling wasn't hot enough to copy :D . The ticket is slow and schmoove. It's amazing how much and how precise a force a properly actuated cue can generate.
 
Top