What does it take to become a Champion?

john schmidt said:
josh i likede your game and i thought you could have been great.you had ability for sure.
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John,

(And I am asking this politely, and your sarcasm is wearing thin. I would appreciate it if you would just discuss this politely..)

Don't you think Josh would mow down a lot of pros if he was given a year to practice, and perhaps played out of the same room as a champion?

If so..He proves the point. If he had been "born with it", he prolly would have won a pro even or two by this age.

Russ
 
john schmidt said:
let me pose this question gatz. do you think everybody is born with the same i.q. or mental learning capacity.of course not. then why is it that you think everybody will end up the same physically when everybody knows people dont end up the same mentally.
tons of practice can not make up for something that someone is lacking between the ears.
do you also think anybody could be a world class singer,painter,musician.
of course not.
i think some people are lacking physically or mentally or both and the ones who arent lacking in either are will surpass the others.
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i dont know if rationality is welcome here.....
 
john schmidt said:
let me pose this question gatz. do you think everybody is born with the same i.q. or mental learning capacity.of course not. then why is it that you think everybody will end up the same physically when everybody knows people dont end up the same mentally.
tons of practice can not make up for something that someone is lacking between the ears.
do you also think anybody could be a world class singer,painter,musician.
of course not.
i think some people are lacking physically or mentally or both and the ones who arent lacking in either will surpass the others.
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Well of course if your mentally retarded or physically disable then you got a serious problem lol. But I think someone that really wants to become a champion at something and has the time and desire to, they can. This is all opinions john thats all, you won't change my opinion otherwise, just like I won't change yours.

Oh and by the way anybody can become a singer, thats not even hard, I mean come on look at Paris Hilton....pffft, please. All you need is a recording studio and a computer lol
 
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Gatz said:
Well of course if your mentally retarded or physically disable then you got a serious problem lol. But I think someone that really wants to become a champion at something and has the time and desire to, they can. This is all opinions john thats all, you won't change my opinion otherwise, just like I won't change yours.
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your right because anybody could have done the things einstein did .i mean anybody could do that because we are all the same if we work at it lol
 
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hi

Russ Chewning said:
John,

(And I am asking this politely, and your sarcasm is wearing thin. I would appreciate it if you would just discuss this politely..)

Don't you think Josh would mow down a lot of pros if he was given a year to practice, and perhaps played out of the same room as a champion?

If so..He proves the point. If he had been "born with it", he prolly would have won a pro even or two by this age.

Russ
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russ he did those things .by the way i dont remember being sarcastic.
 
john schmidt said:
let me pose this question gatz. do you think everybody is born with the same i.q. or mental learning capacity.of course not. then why is it that you think everybody will end up the same physically when everybody knows people dont end up the same mentally.
tons of practice can not make up for something that someone is lacking between the ears.
do you also think anybody could be a world class singer,painter,musician.
of course not.
i think some people are lacking physically or mentally or both and the ones who arent lacking in either will surpass the others.
Click to expand...

I like this post. No sarcasm included. You are a much more likeable guy when you are not putting down others' opinions with sarcasm, John.

And to answer your question, John... if the physical/mental ability was on a scale of 1-100..

And if the superpros were born with a distribution like this...

Physical - 90
Mental - 90

Is it not concievable that there are some people out there with distributions like...

Physical - 80
Mental - 95

And, with work... they could conceivably improve the physical to 85.

It might take them a sh*tload of practice time... And they might only win 1-2 pro events, whereas the superpros will win dozens... But...they CAN do it.

And, since there will probably be lots more people with an 80/95 distribution, than a 90/90 distribution, I submit that with proper guidance, and 2 years of practice time, there would be a lot more great players.

John, when you are talking about these people who practice all the time, you are talking about people who are

Physical - 70
Mental - 75

And I agree..These people have no chance.

And THAT'S what I am saying..There are a lot of people (maybe 20% of serious players, who DO have that 80/90 or 80/95 distribution that with the proper time and tutelage, might not achieve superpro status, but could achieve strong regional champion level play.

John..I know you improved so quick, your view of what constitutes a "champion" might be skewed.. But most of us consider Bartram a champion...Even when he wasn't playing as well as he is now. And we all know he is a few notches under you.

Russ
 
hi

Gatz said:
Well of course if your mentally retarded or physically disable then you got a serious problem lol. But I think someone that really wants to become a champion at something and has the time and desire to, they can. This is all opinions john thats all, you won't change my opinion otherwise, just like I won't change yours.

Oh and by the way anybody can become a singer, thats not even hard, I mean come on look at Paris Hilton....pffft, please. All you need is a recording studio and a computer lol
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so you can sing like paris hilton.
 
Heres a good read http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/bregman/2009/11/how-not-achieving-something-is.html read the whole thing, don't just scim through it. It's not that long so you people with no patience (like john) can handle this one.

heres a small little quote from a study

"And here's the compelling part: There wasn't a single violinist who had practiced 10,000 hours who wasn't a star. In other words, 10,000 hours of practice guaranteed you'd be a star violinist. According to Gladwell, 10,000 hours of practice is the magic number to become the best at anything."
 
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hi

Russ Chewning said:
I like this post. No sarcasm included. You are a much more likeable guy when you are not putting down others' opinions with sarcasm, John.

And to answer your question, John... if the physical/mental ability was on a scale of 1-100..

And if the superpros were born with a distribution like this...

Physical - 90
Mental - 90

Is it not concievable that there are some people out there with distributions like...

Physical - 80
Mental - 95

And, with work... they could conceivably improve the physical to 85.

It might take them a sh*tload of practice time... And they might only win 1-2 pro events, whereas the superpros will win dozens... But...they CAN do it.

And, since there will probably be lots more people with an 80/95 distribution, than a 90/90 distribution, I submit that with proper guidance, and 2 years of practice time, there would be a lot more great players.

John, when you are talking about these people who practice all the time, you are talking about people who are

Physical - 70
Mental - 75

And I agree..These people have no chance.

And THAT'S what I am saying..There are a lot of people (maybe 20% of serious players, who DO have that 80/90 or 80/95 distribution that with the proper time and tutelage, might not achieve superpro status, but could achieve strong regional champion level play.

John..I know you improved so quick, your view of what constitutes a "champion" might be skewed.. But most of us consider Bartram a champion...Even when he wasn't playing as well as he is now. And we all know he is a few notches under you.

Russ
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i agree with that.your right i think we have a different opinion of what a champion is.all in all were cool though.
 
hi

Gatz said:
Heres a good read http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/bregman/2009/11/how-not-achieving-something-is.html read the whole thing, don't just scim through it. It's not that long so you people with no patience (like john) can handle this one.

heres a small little quote from a study

"And here's the compelling part: There wasn't a single violinist who had practiced 10,000 hours who wasn't a star. In other words, 10,000 hours of practice guaranteed you'd be a star violinist. According to Gladwell, 10,000 hours of practice is the magic number to become the best at anything."
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im glad you brought that up kiddo.you see the difference for me was i made it after about 1000 hours.you would take the full 10,000 for sure just looking at your stance and reading your posts.
also i hope you dont believe everything you read on net.you know i know guys who have practiced 20,000 hours and they probably couldnt beat you.
 
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john schmidt said:
so you can sing like paris hilton.
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Actually, with proper training and practice, anyone can become a competent singer.

In today's musical climate, marketing has turned many merely competent singers into megamillionaires. There are many female singers who have a very narrow range, but have good songwriters, are really hot, and have great dance choreographers.

I don't think singing is a good example, John. :-D

Russ

John, I enjoy the fact that you are patient enough to discuss this with us..I just wish it was more of a "discussion" than an argument. Tell us you viewpoint, please.. But do so respectfully. That's what i am trying to do here.. :-)

Note, when you say stuff like "So anyone can sing..Anyone can be an Einstein",etc...It does come off as sarcastic..It is much more polite to say "I value your opinion Gatz, but based on my exposure to fellow pros, the majority were born with it, and I was lucky enough to be born with it. I think born talent is the biggest factor."

You seem to come across with a sense of disdain for anyone who has a difference of opinion on this subject. I differ with you on this, but I respect your opinion.

I also have some knowledge of human psychology, and I know that many many pros think their way is best, at whatever they are doing, even when they don't do things the same as other pros do. I think that applies to this argument as well.
 
john schmidt said:
im glad you brought that up kiddo.you see the difference for me was i made it after about 1000 hours.you would take the full 10,000 for sure just looking at your stance and reading your posts.
also i hope you dont believe everything you read on net.you know i know guys who have practiced 20,000 hours and they probably couldnt beat you.
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Well john unless you show me some solid evidence, proof that a person can't become great/champion/good/awesomesauce/ownage at something then all you have is your word. And I don't think your word is good enough because you think your right at everything on this forum, just because your great at pool.

I also find it funny that you accuse me of spending alot of time on here when you have more posts than I and I have been here a year longer than you have.

BTW I have nothing against forum whores :D
 
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Gatz said:
Heres a good read http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/bregman/2009/11/how-not-achieving-something-is.html read the whole thing, don't just scim through it. It's not that long so you people with no patience (like john) can handle this one.

heres a small little quote from a study

"And here's the compelling part: There wasn't a single violinist who had practiced 10,000 hours who wasn't a star. In other words, 10,000 hours of practice guaranteed you'd be a star violinist. According to Gladwell, 10,000 hours of practice is the magic number to become the best at anything."
Click to expand...


The future teachers had practiced 4,000 hours in their lifetime. The good performers, 8,000 hours. And those who were categorized as stars? Every single one of them had practiced at least 10,000 hours.


sow how come the guys who had 8000 hours 5 years ago not stars now?
 
Gatz said:
Well john unless you show me some solid evidence, proof that a person can't become great/champion/good/awesomesauce/ownage at something then all you have is your word. And I don't think your word is good enough because you think your right at everything on this forum, just because your great at pool.

I also find it funny that you accuse me of spending alot of time on here when you have more posts than I and I have been here a year longer than you have.

BTW I have nothing against forum whores :D
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your right you know more than me about pool related stuff.so ill just let you win this one your way too smart for me.
 
tom351 said:
The future teachers had practiced 4,000 hours in their lifetime. The good performers, 8,000 hours. And those who were categorized as stars? Every single one of them had practiced at least 10,000 hours.


sow how come the guys who had 8000 hours 5 years ago not stars now?
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Don't read the quote man, read the "WHOLE" article I posted, you lazy bum lol :D. I'm just posting this as an example and this guys grammar, writing and spelling is a heck of a lot better than mine so maybe some of you could understand the idea alittle better.
 
tom351 said:
The future teachers had practiced 4,000 hours in their lifetime. The good performers, 8,000 hours. And those who were categorized as stars? Every single one of them had practiced at least 10,000 hours.


sow how come the guys who had 8000 hours 5 years ago not stars now?
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good post.just like 10,000 hours from now gatz will still be a c player living with his mom and dad at 30 talking about i can be great at anything lol.
 
john schmidt said:
your right you know more than me about pool related stuff.so ill just let you win this one your way too smart for me.
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Once again, your stuffing words into my mouth. I never said once, did I know more about pool than you. Your assuming that I do.
 
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