What exactly is "shortstop" speed?

Some famous ex-"shortstops"

Earl, Johnny, Corey, Nick, .......just to name a few. I have heard stories about or directly from all of these guys mentioned about how they went from the upper "shortstop" category to world class in the blink of an eye. Who else do you all think?
 
Southpaw said:
Well the players that have made their living on the road around here have gone out looking for shortstops because they usually play just good enough to get beat.... A really good example of a shortstop would be Brim-cat in Mobile..

Southpaw
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EXACTLY. "A" players do not generally (and SHOULD not) go gambling big with anyone they don't know. Shortstops are just good enough to match up with anyone that walks in the room, but not good enough to play someone from out of town who knows how the shortstop plays.

Honestly.. Who knows of any "A" players from areas outside their own?

Hardly anyone.

Who knows of "Shortstops" from areas outside their own?
Me! Bruce Berrong, Joey Korsiak, Raul Abenojar from WA (if only he had a better break! :D) etc..etc...etc..

A players are lucky to make it into AZBilliards player names. ALL the shortstops are in there, if they play regional tournaments.

Or, another way to put it.. Wanna find shortstops? Go to big regional events, and look for the guys that place between 6th and 12th place. That's how the road players find out who to play.

And I guarantee you that most road players who go hunting for shortstops to take off, play at least Donny Mills speed or just under. If they don't play his speed, playing shortstops is a tossup for them, and most road players aren't looking to gamble.

Russ
 
Southpaw said:
In this area, I would say that Bruce Berrong is considered an A player and Lane Simons is a good B+. I can name a dozen players in between these 2 and around here they are considered shortstop speed. Southpaw rounds out the field as a solid D+ :)

Southpaw
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I thought all Southpaws were = to Efrin,
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or a cut above.
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Hey Russ,
I think you hit it on the head! You covered every level with an accurate description. Putting the regional pro in the middle really breaks it down, and gives the list more clarity.
Jeremy
 
1on1pooltournys said:
Earl, Johnny, Corey, Nick, .......just to name a few. I have heard stories about or directly from all of these guys mentioned about how they went from the upper "shortstop" category to world class in the blink of an eye. Who else do you all think?
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Ayuh. Something about these guys allowed them to almost completely pass the stage where they had to dominate in state for a while before they stepped up.

That being said..Alex was beating up on other players in Canada LONG before he was ready to step up to Champion level. Corey was beating up on shortstops on the road, but still was not ready to play really well in major tourneys.

There are many small gradations in skill level once they reach shortstop level and above.

For example... Mike Davis is a truly great player who dominates regional tours.. But he still has a problem taking off majors. Same with Larry Nevel. There is just that little extra "something" that makes someone a "champion" on the national level, versus state/regional levels.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
EXACTLY. "A" players do not generally (and SHOULD not) go gambling big with anyone they don't know. Shortstops are just good enough to match up with anyone that walks in the room, but not good enough to play someone from out of town who knows how the shortstop plays.

Honestly.. Who knows of any "A" players from areas outside their own?

Hardly anyone.

Who knows of "Shortstops" from areas outside their own?
Me! Bruce Berrong, Joey Korsiak, Raul Abenojar from WA (if only he had a better break! :D) etc..etc...etc..

A players are lucky to make it into AZBilliards player names. ALL the shortstops are in there, if they play regional tournaments.

Or, another way to put it.. Wanna find shortstops? Go to big regional events, and look for the guys that place between 6th and 12th place. That's how the road players find out who to play.

And I guarantee you that most road players who go hunting for shortstops to take off, play at least Donny Mills speed or just under. If they don't play his speed, playing shortstops is a tossup for them, and most road players aren't looking to gamble.

Russ
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Are you kidding? I know road players that kept books on players everywhere they went and would share it with other road players so they would know exactly what order to play the locals. Dont take my word for it, if you're ever in Atlanta, go by Mr. Cues for their Monday night handicapped tourney. Usually has around 30 players. See if you can pick out the shortstops and then see the way they are ranked in the tourney. They have a "shortstop" ranking....right between B+ and A. Like I said, I guess it varies by region.

Southpaw
 
Russ Chewning said:
Ayuh. Something about these guys allowed them to almost completely pass the stage where they had to dominate in state for a while before they stepped up.

That being said..Alex was beating up on other players in Canada LONG before he was ready to step up to Champion level. Corey was beating up on shortstops on the road, but still was not ready to play really well in major tourneys.

There are many small gradations in skill level once they reach shortstop level and above.

For example... Mike Davis is a truly great player who dominates regional tours.. But he still has a problem taking off majors. Same with Larry Nevel. There is just that little extra "something" that makes someone a "champion" on the national level, versus state/regional levels.

Russ
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The main thing lacking from what I can tell is in the Heart department.
 
Speaking of Larry Nevel, he is playing as good as anyone in the country right now. Its only a matter of time before he snaps off something big.

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
Are you kidding? I know road players that kept books on players everywhere they went and would share it with other road players so they would know exactly what order to play the locals. Dont take my word for it, if you're ever in Atlanta, go by Mr. Cues for their Monday night handicapped tourney. Usually has around 30 players. See if you can pick out the shortstops and then see the way they are ranked in the tourney. They have a "shortstop" ranking....right between B+ and A. Like I said, I guess it varies by region.

Southpaw
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You don't have to go very far to find people using the term "shortstop" the way we do. I lived in south GA for awhile a few years ago, and herad the term thrown around regularly.
Go down to the monthly tournaments in Albany, and you will see a bunch of A players, and only a few shortstops now and then!
Jeremy
 
1on1pooltournys said:
The main thing lacking from what I can tell is in the Heart department.
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Heart has nothing to do with it! There are plenty of shortstops out there with plenty of heart and gamble that just have not it together yet, for one reason or another!
Jeremy
 
??

Russ Chewning said:
EXACTLY. "A" players do not generally (and SHOULD not) go gambling big with anyone they don't know. Shortstops are just good enough to match up with anyone that walks in the room, but not good enough to play someone from out of town who knows how the shortstop plays.

Honestly.. Who knows of any "A" players from areas outside their own?

Hardly anyone.

Who knows of "Shortstops" from areas outside their own?
Me! Bruce Berrong, Joey Korsiak, Raul Abenojar from WA (if only he had a better break! :D) etc..etc...etc..

A players are lucky to make it into AZBilliards player names. ALL the shortstops are in there, if they play regional tournaments.

Or, another way to put it.. Wanna find shortstops? Go to big regional events, and look for the guys that place between 6th and 12th place. That's how the road players find out who to play.

And I guarantee you that most road players who go hunting for shortstops to take off, play at least Donny Mills speed or just under. If they don't play his speed, playing shortstops is a tossup for them, and most road players aren't looking to gamble Most road players play at least my speed??? Well if any roadplayer "short stop" that you think plays "at least my speed" can have the call 8 any night of the week except friday nights. (:
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Any road player "short stop" that supposedly plays "at least my speed" has got the call 8 any night of the week except friday or saturday night. (: Tales.
 
donny mills said:
Any road player "short stop" that supposedly plays "at least my speed" has got the call 8 any night of the week except friday or saturday night. (: Tales.
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Man, according to some definitions of shortstop speed, you must play like Archer to be able to give them the call 8....:rolleyes:

Southpaw
 
Personally I think Russ laid it out pretty good earlier. Shortstops are above A players, but above them are regional pros like Donny, who can take off any tournament but ain't gonna play Corey even!
Jeremy
 
instroke75 said:
Personally I think Russ laid it out pretty good earlier. Shortstops are above A players, but above them are regional pros like Donny, who can take off any tournament but ain't gonna play Corey even!
Jeremy
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Well, Bruce Berrong is an A player, which according to some is lower than a shortstop player. Donny is offering shortstops the call 8 so that means Bruce should get probably the 7 from Donny. Or better yet, Bruce will take the 8 playing 10 ball. Anyone want to put Donny in the box?

Southpaw
 
Southpaw said:
Well, Bruce Berrong is an A player, which according to some is lower than a shortstop player. Donny is offering shortstops the call 8 so that means Bruce should get probably the 7 from Donny. Or better yet, Bruce will take the 8 playing 10 ball. Anyone want to put Donny in the box?

Southpaw
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Wrong.

I think the majority of people on here would classify Bruce as a shortstop, which is ABOVE an A player.

And actually, YES, I WOULD like to put Donny in the box if Bruce thinks he can get there with the 8.

Donny, you up for it, brother?

And to put it clearly, I never said shortstops were road players, Donny. You are putting words into my mouth. I said that road players go around looking to snap off shortstops, and they better play at least your speed if they want to do well on the road.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
Wrong.

I think the majority of people on here would classify Bruce as a shortstop, which is ABOVE an A player.

And actually, YES, I WOULD like to put Donny in the box if Bruce thinks he can get there with the 8.

Donny, you up for it, brother?

And to put it clearly, I never said shortstops were road players, Donny. You are putting words into my mouth. I said that road players go around looking to snap off shortstops, and they better play at least your speed if they want to do well on the road.

Russ
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Well I guess we have our next TAR match. Bruce getting the 8 from Donny playing 10 ball. Race to 100, $10k entry. You got action.

Southpaw
 
Bruce is a shortstop, and I'm sure he can get the 8 in 9ball, if they are ever in the same room! Turning my statement around to try and steal is a little silly!(no offense)
Jeremy
 
instroke75 said:
Bruce is a shortstop, and I'm sure he can get the 8 if they are ever in the same room! Turning my statement around to try and steal is a little silly!(no offense)
Jeremy
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Not trying to steal. It was stated that Larry Nevel isnt top pro speed so he must be just under which is shortstop, right? He gave Bruce the 8 playing 10 ball and beat Bruce....

Southpaw
 
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