What happened to the Matchroom Sport World Pool Championships ?

D

Desmondp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Held in Cardiff in the early 2000s

I know there is still a world 9 ball championship, but the tv coverage of the matchroom event was awesome and it did truly include the best players form Europe, Asia and the USA. Also because it was held in Britain, many snooker players gave it a crack which added to the fascination of the event.

Why would matchroom retain the World Cup of Pool and the World Pool masters, both lesser events and not continue with the World Pool Championships ?
 
Desmondp said:
Held in Cardiff in the early 2000s

I know there is still a world 9 ball championship, but the tv coverage of the matchroom event was awesome and it did truly include the best players form Europe, Asia and the USA. Also because it was held in Britain, many snooker players gave it a crack which added to the fascination of the event.
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And lots of English pool players including Appleton, Melling, Harrison, McKenna, Morris and others who all qualified for the finals with varying degrees of success..

Why would matchroom retain the World Cup of Pool and the World Pool masters, both lesser events and not continue with the World Pool Championships ?
Click to expand...

It's a good question. It was a class event. Even better when you go there live. One of the best events I have ever been to.
 
When Matchroom held the World Pool Championships it was just that - a World Pool Championship. There was only one discipline of pool (9-Ball) that held a World Championship and so the Matchroom event was able to crown a true World Champion.

But then other disciplines began having World Championships. At one time we had World 9-Ball, World 8-Ball, World Ten Ball and World 14.1. So which of these created the pool Champion of the World? None of them. So the World Championship that Matchroom had shepherded so carefully was suddenly devalued. They were no longer crowning the Champion of the World, they were just crowning the Champion of 9-Ball.

With the event thus devalued they lost viewing interest and I would imagine (though this is not a fact as I am making a supposition here) advertising rates could no longer be defended at the previous rate. Their Championship was just another in a long line of World Championships.

The success of the Matchroom event generated competitors who felt they could duplicate that success. Instead many of the events have now disbanded but the momentum that was once there to carry off the World Pool Championship is now gone and will not be rekindled. The players themselves have accepted events as World Class events even though the added money is embarrassing. As long as they are willing to support cheap events there is no reason for anyone to hold expensive ones. When we had three events in one year supported and sanctioned by the ABP that were touted as "Majors" when each event had only $8,000 or less in added money the long-term sponsors of pool took note. The price of pro pool had plummeted. Why add $25,000 when they will play for so much less? And why on earth would you go back to the $400,000 added that Matchroom had created when that type of money obviously is no longer needed to buy you a better field?

Hence, we went from 8 Majors ($25,000- added Points Events) in 2013 down to 2 this year.
 
Truth hurts, jerry.

Don't think I can disagree with your macro-analysis of the climate of pro pool.

Like whipped cream on a hot dog...déjà vu, all over again.
 
That's kinda the problem with pool, there is so many different games to play and so many different rules for the same game. How can one game claim to crown the work championof pool, if there are 5 or more strong games? The world championships should be tournaments of the top games and award a champion in each discipline like 8, 9, 10 ball and 14.1 or/ and one pocket. All sanctioned by the WPA and only held by proper people. 8, 9, 10 ball could probably be run all at the same time. To save expenses to setup a venue. But that's how I see it anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for that insight Jerry. That answers a lot of questions that I had on this topic. When I started playing pool (mid 90s) it made sense to me that there was only 1 world pool championship and that the game was 9 ball because that was the primary game played at the highest level at the time (having evolved away from 14.1). It kind of surprised me when I went away from pool for a couple years and came back to find a host of other world championships being contested. Even though I love straight pool and I would like to see that be the world championship game I think it would make sense if there was only 1 World Pool Championship contested in whatever discipline is most popular (for lack of a better term) at the professional level at the time. In other words if the world championship evolved from 9 ball to 10 ball that would be ok, but having separate ones for each doesn't make a lot of sense if you're trying to elevate one event.
 
Thanks for your insight Jerry

The Matchroom sport world pool championship ended up having a field of 128 so you truly had the best in the world plus a heap of room for wildcards for snooker/english 8ball players and others.

The round robin format meant that the best usually did get through to the knock out stages as they could afford to have 1 or 2 bad games

I just rewatched Earl v Steve Davis from 2003, awesome match and atmosphere. I also recall the match where Jimmy White almost took out Efren reyes but can't find it anywhere to watch.

And it was all shown on Sky sports !
 
I don't care for the ABP at all, but it seems that all the blame here is being laid at
their and the feet of players.
I don't see or hear any mention of the BCA or what hand the WPA might have better
played This sounds like a big pile of excuses to me.

If this is true did the WPA ever tell to the players or lay down the law and say if you play
in those lesser money added events you will be banned from playing in the big money
added events. To protect those big events or was that just left up to the players, who of
coarse are going to play in more events to try and make some more money if left on their own.

In other words instead of letting this happen then laying the blame once again on the players was
there more that the BCA / WPA could or should have done, as in setting up stricter guide lines for the
players to follow before everything came unraveled? Don't other professional groups have strict
rules to prevent such things from occurring ?

Wasn't this something that could have been avoided before hand if the proper attention was given
to it by the association in charge.
Somebody is supposed to be in charge, who was in charge ? It's not the players themselves is it ?
I am just asking questions here, the ones that came to mind when I read this.
 
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For there to be guidelines for player-members to follow there have to be player-members. Players in the USA are not members of either the BCA or the WPA so they have no requirement to follow their rules. Nor do they have any interest in becoming members and following guidelines. They feel this would be turning control of their fate over to someone other than themselves and they do not wish to do that. And from their point of view they have a very valid point there. With fewer and fewer events they do not want a third-party telling them where they can and cannot play. The entire scenario is a vicious circle in a descending pattern. Those who have control (the players) do not have funding and those who control the funding are without power or control.

This really only applies to US players. European players are members of the EPBF and follow their guidelines. But money in pool is drying up everywhere and now the EPBF events are not paying out the sums of past years.

I wish I had a more positive scene to paint but the truth is that money is required to boost the game and money is in short supply these days. We can turn things around, but it will require promoters, sponsors and players working together and treating one another with respect. We are a ways away from hitting that target.

In truth, I do not blame the players, promoters or sponsors for the decline in pro pool. I blame the fans for not attending and supporting events and I blame the game itself for developing the current studious and emotionless playing style that is not much fun for anyone other than purists to watch. When promoters spend $200,000 and more to attract 40 fans they tend to question why they are doling what they are doing.

Everyone in the game has become so short-sighted that they cannot get far enough away from their own tree to see that the forest is dying.

The amateur game is still doing well. And there is hope there. New paths are being sought that are hopefully more efficient than the old roads. Time will tell.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
For there to be guidelines for player-members to follow there have to be player-members. Players in the USA are not members of either the BCA or the WPA so they have no requirement to follow their rules. Nor do they have any interest in becoming members and following guidelines. They feel this would be turning control of their fate over to someone other than themselves and they do not wish to do that. And from their point of view they have a very valid point there. With fewer and fewer events they do not want a third-party telling them where they can and cannot play. The entire scenario is a vicious circle in a descending pattern. Those who have control (the players) do not have funding and those who control the funding are without power or control.

This really only applies to US players. European players are members of the EPBF and follow their guidelines. But money in pool is drying up everywhere and now the EPBF events are not paying out the sums of past years.

I wish I had a more positive scene to paint but the truth is that money is required to boost the game and money is in short supply these days. We can turn things around, but it will require promoters, sponsors and players working together and treating one another with respect. We are a ways away from hitting that target.

In truth, I do not blame the players, promoters or sponsors for the decline in pro pool. I blame the fans for not attending and supporting events and I blame the game itself for developing the current studious and emotionless playing style that is not much fun for anyone other than purists to watch. When promoters spend $200,000 and more to attract 40 fans they tend to question why they are doling what they are doing.

Everyone in the game has become so short-sighted that they cannot get far enough away from their own tree to see that the forest is dying.

The amateur game is still doing well. And there is hope there. New paths are being sought that are hopefully more efficient than the old roads. Time will tell.
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Currently on the 2014 WPA calendar there is only the one Championship, 9 Ball, scheduled for June in Qatar. Are there any plans for an 8 or 10 Ball? Are the rights currently owned by a promoter or is the WPA actively seeking a new promoter? Is the WPA going to reduce the $ threshold for being able to stage an event?

They have also added a September event ("Special event - to be advised-Men & Women (16 - 19 Sep )"). Any idea what that is?
 
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If anyone wishes to come forward and promote an 8-Ball or 10-Ball WC the WPA would certainly listen to their proposal. I do not know if they are in talks with anyone at this point. If they are contemplating lowering the prize thresholds I am unaware of that.

I do not know about the Special Event this fall.
 
Desmondp said:
Thanks for your insight Jerry

The Matchroom sport world pool championship ended up having a field of 128 so you truly had the best in the world plus a heap of room for wildcards for snooker/english 8ball players and others.
Click to expand...

there weren't that many wild cards at all. There were a whole raft of qualifiers. Melling, Appleton, et all had to qualify that year...
 
I'm not convinced by the premise that it was the emergence of world championships in other disciplines that caused Matchroom to re think. Matchroom, after all, are still involved in pool:

http://www.matchroompool.com/tournaments

Also, Matchroom only ran the event at Cardiff (with the WPA) for four years: 2000-2003

I'd like it back because then I would go again! :D
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
If anyone wishes to come forward and promote an 8-Ball or 10-Ball WC the WPA would certainly listen to their proposal. I do not know if they are in talks with anyone at this point. If they are contemplating lowering the prize thresholds I am unaware of that.

I do not know about the Special Event this fall.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
For there to be guidelines for player-members to follow there have to be player-members. Players in the USA are not members of either the BCA or the WPA so they have no requirement to follow their rules. Nor do they have any interest in becoming members and following guidelines. They feel this would be turning control of their fate over to someone other than themselves and they do not wish to do that. And from their point of view they have a very valid point there. With fewer and fewer events they do not want a third-party telling them where they can and cannot play. The entire scenario is a vicious circle in a descending pattern. Those who have control (the players) do not have funding and those who control the funding are without power or control.

This really only applies to US players. European players are members of the EPBF and follow their guidelines. But money in pool is drying up everywhere and now the EPBF events are not paying out the sums of past years.

I wish I had a more positive scene to paint but the truth is that money is required to boost the game and money is in short supply these days. We can turn things around, but it will require promoters, sponsors and players working together and treating one another with respect. We are a ways away from hitting that target.

In truth, I do not blame the players, promoters or sponsors for the decline in pro pool. I blame the fans for not attending and supporting events and I blame the game itself for developing the current studious and emotionless playing style that is not much fun for anyone other than purists to watch. When promoters spend $200,000 and more to attract 40 fans they tend to question why they are doling what they are doing.

Everyone in the game has become so short-sighted that they cannot get far enough away from their own tree to see that the forest is dying.

The amateur game is still doing well. And there is hope there. New paths are being sought that are hopefully more efficient than the old roads. Time will tell.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply.
That may have been true then, but it appears to have changed then as the players seem to be letting Bonus Ball dictate to them where they could and couldn't play.

As far as the style of play the players have adopted, for years the commentators of pro matches have been glorifying that style whenever a Pinoy player was in a match. I have hundreds of Accu-stats DVD's and want to vomit every time I hear it. You'd think that was the best thing since Chicken soup. (I recall stoic as their favorite description)

AS far as fans not coming out I think that a lot of that blame has got to go to the promoters of the events, very little if any money it seems is spent on promotion.
It is there job to get the word out, make a buzz so to speak and get the excitement going. If this is not done as was the case in Tunica, where there was no mention of it
even in the nearest big city, then you should expect a bad turn out and that is what they got.

The big tournament right before Tunica, I think it was the Ultimate Ten Ball there was a lot of money yet it seemed once again very little promotion. First off the location seemed a poor choice and where were the qualifiers that there should have been run not only here in the states but around the world? These have a two fold purpose not only do they fill up the field but they create a buzz about the tournament and get the fans attention a long ways out from the event so they just might have time to make plans to attend, god forbid.

As far as holding a league tournament at the same time as the pro tournament they seemed to try that, but even when the league tournaments are held in the same building and admission is free to watch the pro's it been proven it's hard to fill the seats. So why would one think that holding the league tournament across the way in another building with an army of mosquito's between the two would work.

From observing the actions of the league players on AZ forums it would seem as they like to play but they are not so much interested in watching. When they had the live stream of the amateur event, even in the league threads there was almost no mention about it that I could find. The league players it seems like to like talk about how they played in their league matches but do not care to watch the amateur tournament streams as a whole, some but few it appears have interest in watching the pro's play live or on a live stream.

There needs to be a way to get the pro's and the amateurs together in some kind of event, I don't know if pro-am events (where the pro's and amateurs are teamed up) is the answer. What ever the answer is there has to be pro events for anything to happen and right now those are far and few between.

Pool is the only sport I can think of where people that play the sport are not fans of the professional players, I am not saying there are not a few of the hard core fans such as my self. There needs to be a broader fan base though to support professional pool and if there isn't a way to get even the amateurs who play the game interested it seems hard to broaden the fan base.

The only way I see to broaden the fan base really is to get on TV for a sustained period of time, and even that won't work if you don't promote the players and give people a reason to watch because they like or even dislike a certain player or players.

Just throwing a tournament on TV then only showing partial matches even in the semi and finals, no player bio's, no highlights from during the tournament through out the week, no talk about whose leading for the year or talk about what players have qualified for the end of year Tournament of Champions, which I don't even think they ever even had one. Sorry but Mitch Lawrence as the color man acting on each broadcast like it was the first pro tournament he had ever seen, just doesn't cut it.

Well I feel better now, anyway.
 
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I really like the idea of a Pro/Am tournament. The pros may not be inclined to want to play with the less skilled, but it would really promote the sport. I would pay a decent entry fee for a chance to play with a pro in a Scotch doubles format. Exposure is the key to popularizing something.
 
Pool players do not watch pool. They play pool.

We all know this by now surely????

I was watching this match earlier (following following a link to a link to a link - one of them situations...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG3jzDTW7Jc#t=130

These are two world class players! Just look at the crowd!

If pool can't get pool players to watch pool, then how can it expect anyone else to bother??????

This was published on the 13th March this year and has had 1800 views in total on youtube.

Lets get real people!
 
voiceofreason said:
Pool players do not watch pool. They play pool.

We all know this by now surely????

I was watching this match earlier (following following a link to a link to a link - one of them situations...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG3jzDTW7Jc#t=130

These are two world class players! Just look at the crowd!

If pool can't get pool players to watch pool, then how can it expect anyone else to bother??????

This was published on the 13th March this year and has had 1800 views in total on youtube.

Lets get real people!
Click to expand...

Well Thanks for the link anyway. :grin:
 
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