What if we win ???

Lance Link

Lance Link

Banned
I'm the captain of a five-person team. The tone of our team has always been, "Yes, we're playing to win, but we're also playing for fun."

In our history, anyone that's left this team has done so for 'non-pool' reasons (new job, new baby, new city, etc.). Most seasons we end up having to turn one or two eager players away because the roster's already been filled.

We have six players on our roster. It's something I've always insisted on. There are times where someone has to work late, or the kids are sick, or they're on vacation, or they are sick, or for any other reason that may keep them from league night.
And it's never been an issue when all six players show up. Most of the time, someone will volunteer to 'split the night' with another, so there's no animosity. The remaining five play the first two rounds, and the sixth player goes in for 'lowest ball count'. On occasion, if a teammate feels they aren't shooting well, and they are NOT the lowest ball count, they will remove themselves from play.
The season dues are divided equally (everyone pays the same going in), and prize money gets cut evenly as well (regardless of games played/won).
There's always been a 'team' mentality when we play. Sure, someone may lose a key game by not winning or making enough balls. But that's what a team is for. If someone is playing bad, the rest of the team should be able to 'pick 'em up'. Our entire philosophy is that, "We win as a team, we lose as a team".

Currently our team ranks below where we need to place to qualify for the playoffs. During the remaining weeks, we will be playing the teams that are ranked ahead of us. On some weeks, those teams will be playing each other.
With the time left in the season, it's feasible that our team COULD make the playoffs, provided we 'win our nights' for the rest of our matches. That's also assuming that a couple of higher ranked teams won't 'blow each other away'.
Most of the team feels that we can make the playoffs, provided we can do the above.
Now it just becomes a matter of bearing down and playing our best. And we've never played 'not to lose'. We play smart (?), but we always play to win.

This past week, one of my teammates (we'll call him Chuck) told myself and another teammate that he decided to play with "So & So's" team at the Nationals. I was so taken aback by the statement, the only thing I could say was, "Ok, if that's what you want to do...".

Chuck's a fair player. In past seasons, when we have made the playoffs, Chuck seems to bring his A game and shoots well.
During previous regular seasons, Chuck's game fluctuates from runnin' racks to not being able to make three balls in a row on a wide open table (able is underlined because you could tell Chuck was trying). That's ok, slumps happen to all of us at one time or another.

Fast forward to this season. Lately Chuck hasn't seemed to be as 'dedicated' to playing/winning as in previous seasons. A player that usually takes about six warm-up strokes before shooting, is now simply leaning over and 'firing at the cueball'. There's been a certain 'lackadaisical' attitude when shooting thats lead myself, and more so other team members, to believe that 'Chuck just don't give a s***'.

Everyone has paid thier dues in full. Nobody owes any money.

So here are my questions...

- Should I limit Chuck's playing time to 'half the night' from here on out (the thought being he's already playing on a team in the Nationals, he's not as commited as the rest of the team to win) ? Or should I pull Chuck out of the lineup entirely ?

Now, let's say we make it to the playoffs, and win the whole gosh darn thing. Chuck's already chosen to play with another team. Because of that, I would need another player at the Nationals. Although I would intend on paying Chuck 'regular season' prize money...
- As I have to find another player to join the Nationals team, do I not give Chuck the 'trip allowance' money ? Or do I give it to him, and HOPE that I can find a player willing to pay thier way out there to play with us ?

I plan on speaking with Chuck about his decision at the next league match (one-on-one or with the whole team, I haven't decided yet), but any advice you guys can put up here is appreciated.
 
First, most definitely make the decision before talking to him, and tell him in a neutral environment one on one. That means non-league night, if you ask him to meet up because you want to talk, that will be signaling that something is up and he won't feel blindsided, thus reducing the probability of getting defensive and shutting down to your message.

Second, it isn't a conversation, it's here's what I'm going to do. He made his decision to not shoot at nationals with the team, now you are responding. He doesn't get to bail and still have a say in when/if he plays.

Third, he gets regular season money, but the travel money is to get the team out there. A valid question is if the team he is joining is using part of their travel money to pay his way, then why would he feel entitled to some of your travel money.

Fourth, if you have this conversation you had better finish. If you make a scene and alienate a friend/teammate and then don't even make the playoffs what was the point? Maybe you should wait until you are closer to getting to the playoffs if not winning them.

Finally, your job as captain is to put the best team out there every night if the sole goal of your team is to win. If it's to have fun, that's a little different. If he's checked out already because he no longer has a vested interested in your teams success, maybe he shouldn't play as much. It's a delicate balance here, and why sometimes being the captain sucks.

Good Luck with your team and the rest of your season.
 
Lance Link said:
So here are my questions...

- Should I limit Chuck's playing time to 'half the night' from here on out (the thought being he's already playing on a team in the Nationals, he's not as commited as the rest of the team to win) ? Or should I pull Chuck out of the lineup entirely ?

Now, let's say we make it to the playoffs, and win the whole gosh darn thing. Chuck's already chosen to play with another team. Because of that, I would need another player at the Nationals. Although I would intend on paying Chuck 'regular season' prize money...
- As I have to find another player to join the Nationals team, do I not give Chuck the 'trip allowance' money ? Or do I give it to him, and HOPE that I can find a player willing to pay thier way out there to play with us ?

I plan on speaking with Chuck about his decision at the next league match (one-on-one or with the whole team, I haven't decided yet), but any advice you guys can put up here is appreciated.
Click to expand...

IMHO, I would remove "chuck" from the team. If he already has plans to play on another team and doesn't seem to be as focused, then he probably isn't. It seems that he will be using the matches he plays with your team as practice for nationals, which is fine, but he won't be on your team.

I personally wouldn't give him any of the "trip allowance" money. The trip money is for your team, and since he isn't participating on your team, he isn't entitled to any of that money.

Just one mans perspective
 
Based on your post, he's more of a liability.....sounds like he's not trying, and the truth is, your success, or lack thereof, does not impact him since he's with another team.....I'd just tell him that since he's not playing with you in Nationals, he will not be playing until Nats is over.....you guys need to gel as a team and you need to plan for success without him, since you'll be without him.......ie, I'd sit him until Nats is over....personally, why would you play with one team and then abandon them at the most important part of the year????
 
Lance Link said:
I'm the captain of a five-person team. The tone of our team has always been, "Yes, we're playing to win, but we're also playing for fun."

In our history, anyone that's left this team has done so for 'non-pool' reasons (new job, new baby, new city, etc.). Most seasons we end up having to turn one or two eager players away because the roster's already been filled.

We have six players on our roster. It's something I've always insisted on. There are times where someone has to work late, or the kids are sick, or they're on vacation, or they are sick, or for any other reason that may keep them from league night.
And it's never been an issue when all six players show up. Most of the time, someone will volunteer to 'split the night' with another, so there's no animosity. The remaining five play the first two rounds, and the sixth player goes in for 'lowest ball count'. On occasion, if a teammate feels they aren't shooting well, and they are NOT the lowest ball count, they will remove themselves from play.
The season dues are divided equally (everyone pays the same going in), and prize money gets cut evenly as well (regardless of games played/won).
There's always been a 'team' mentality when we play. Sure, someone may lose a key game by not winning or making enough balls. But that's what a team is for. If someone is playing bad, the rest of the team should be able to 'pick 'em up'. Our entire philosophy is that, "We win as a team, we lose as a team".

Currently our team ranks below where we need to place to qualify for the playoffs. During the remaining weeks, we will be playing the teams that are ranked ahead of us. On some weeks, those teams will be playing each other.
With the time left in the season, it's feasible that our team COULD make the playoffs, provided we 'win our nights' for the rest of our matches. That's also assuming that a couple of higher ranked teams won't 'blow each other away'.
Most of the team feels that we can make the playoffs, provided we can do the above.
Now it just becomes a matter of bearing down and playing our best. And we've never played 'not to lose'. We play smart (?), but we always play to win.

This past week, one of my teammates (we'll call him Chuck) told myself and another teammate that he decided to play with "So & So's" team at the Nationals. I was so taken aback by the statement, the only thing I could say was, "Ok, if that's what you want to do...".

Chuck's a fair player. In past seasons, when we have made the playoffs, Chuck seems to bring his A game and shoots well.
During previous regular seasons, Chuck's game fluctuates from runnin' racks to not being able to make three balls in a row on a wide open table (able is underlined because you could tell Chuck was trying). That's ok, slumps happen to all of us at one time or another.

Fast forward to this season. Lately Chuck hasn't seemed to be as 'dedicated' to playing/winning as in previous seasons. A player that usually takes about six warm-up strokes before shooting, is now simply leaning over and 'firing at the cueball'. There's been a certain 'lackadaisical' attitude when shooting thats lead myself, and more so other team members, to believe that 'Chuck just don't give a s***'.

Everyone has paid thier dues in full. Nobody owes any money.

So here are my questions...

- Should I limit Chuck's playing time to 'half the night' from here on out (the thought being he's already playing on a team in the Nationals, he's not as commited as the rest of the team to win) ? Or should I pull Chuck out of the lineup entirely ?

Now, let's say we make it to the playoffs, and win the whole gosh darn thing. Chuck's already chosen to play with another team. Because of that, I would need another player at the Nationals. Although I would intend on paying Chuck 'regular season' prize money...
- As I have to find another player to join the Nationals team, do I not give Chuck the 'trip allowance' money ? Or do I give it to him, and HOPE that I can find a player willing to pay thier way out there to play with us ?

I plan on speaking with Chuck about his decision at the next league match (one-on-one or with the whole team, I haven't decided yet), but any advice you guys can put up here is appreciated.
Click to expand...


If you guys are friends away from the table as well, then I would just leave it alone. If you are friends, then I am sure he would be trying to pull his weight and would probably be really offended at being sat out.
If he is low ball after 2 riunds, then he gets replaced anyway. The other thing to consider is what happens if you talk to him and he quits, and the for some reason one of the other guys has to miss a night. Now you likely forfeit (just a guess, as i don't know your rules)

I would not say anytihg about the travel money until you actually win it. No need to open up a can of worms until you have a reason to.

If he is not a friend, and you think he would sell out the rest of you, then get rid of him completely. If that is the case then you need to take a stand. But becareful of the possible forfeits as I already mentioned.

I see it as there being no middle ground. he is either on your team if you trust him and he is your friend or he is off the team completely if you don't.

Just my two cents

Leagueguy
 
Not knowing the people, the personalities, etc. my gut reaction is to let him remain on the team playing half nights, give him his league money, but if he is not going to nationals with your team he doesn't get any trip money for it. However, if he is clearly not playing to win you should get the opinion of the rest of the team first. You are captain so your decision is final, but the rest of your teammates may have strong opinions one way or another that you should at least consider. Remember what you said about playing to win, but playing for fun.

If playing to win and go to nationals was your top (only) priority my answer would be different - boot him now and increase your chances because his heart/mind don't sound like they are in it.
 
Here's an idea...

I had a good shooter tell me that same thing one year. That he will be playing with another team once we go to nationals. I had a very quick conversation with two of the other teammates and made the decision right there at league night. I subbed him out in the third round and told him he should start practicing and playing with his new team starting immediately. He thought I was kidding but then I explained this...


These guys that I play with are champions. We have four team state championships, and have three players that have won state a total of six times. But none of that matters. What matters is we respect each other. Me and the original member have been playing together and going to nationals since 1994. Now some have come and gone, but we have one that has been with us since 1999, one since 2001 and once since 2003.

So that is that... If he doesnt respect what you and the rest of your team is trying to accomplish, boot his ass!!!

I am very firm when it comes to loyalty. I believe that you "ride for the brand".(for lack of better words.) If he thinks the grass is greener, so be it.

p.s. Since I sent the player packing we get to play them twice per season and in the area Playoffs and I am happy to say that him and his new team hasnt won shit. Further more, it gives me great pleasure having my team kick the crap out of his twice a season.

HOPE THIS HELPS!:grin-square:
 
i would definitely keep him on the team (you did say the team is based around leisure and fun)....but would tell him that if you guys make it to nationals that of course his travel money goes to the fill in player since Chuck is going with team so and so....no hard feelings.

Tell him that you may need him to play hard the final few weeks to put your team over the top and make it and and ask him if he's willing to do so.

Give him an out, if he doesnt want it, then he should be an asset to the team both as a friend and player.
 
Wow...

A lot of the posts on here are more or less along the lines I've been thinking. Collectively, they've offered solutions that 'make sense'...

My team and I play to win. If we lose, well, that's ok, too. Everybody's playing to win, and no one is intending to lose (save for 'Chuck', based on the opinions of my teammates).

We've played teams that argue with each other, and offer thier own teammates unsolicited advice. If an opponent loses a game, the rest of his team proceeds to tell him 'what he did wrong'.
What REALLY amazes me is when one of thier players 'runs out' big, and when the guy goes to gets some high-fives, his own team tells him he played this/that ball wrong, and how he should have played it.
The guy just got you a huge W, took a little pressure off the rest of the guys left in the round, and they have the nerve to say, "You should have done this instead". THE GUY WON THE GAME WITH A RUNOUT !!! And you're critiquing his game ??? Are you kidding me ???

Basically, our team doesn't take the losses so seriously that it takes the enjoyment out of the game. You can't do anything about that lost game, it's over. Focus on the next game.

So yes, there is some competitiveness when we play, but winning or losing, we always aim to (and always do) have a good time.

For now, I'm thinking that 'Chuck' will play split-nights for at least the next couple of weeks. Depending on whether or not we advance our position in those weeks will better help with confronting 'Chuck' regarding his decision.
During that time is when I will address the issue with my teammates individually.
If we do advance high enough, then prior to the first round of playoffs may be the best time to address the issue.

As far as the 'trip money', the other teammate and I are in agreement that 'Chuck' is basically going to forfeit that money to the player that will replace him at the Nationals.

I'll keep you guys abreast of how things evolve.

Please, don't hesitate to post any other suggestions...
 
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