What is a bad roll?

mthornto

mthornto

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?

I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.

It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
 
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?

I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.

It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
Click to expand...

One that has gone stale or with mold on it.
 
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?




It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
Click to expand...

Hi there,

I would say that DrCprod (sorry about spelling here) would be able to answer that very well. He has some of the worst bad rolls I've ever read about...:p

Pete
I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.
 
Well, I personally share your viewpoint. For me there is no such thing as a bad roll or bad luck, the ONLY exception being a kick/bad contact, everything else is your own doing. Having said that, when it is mentioned it's usually when a player has to go "into" the balls, and ends up snookering himself.

gr. Dave
 
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?

I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.

It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
Click to expand...

Any time the CB rolls behind another ball and blocks you from your next shot, another bumped ball rolls in front of your CB, the CB hits another ball and caroms into a pocket for scratch....(these are all bad rolls)

That part is easy to define....The hard part is "Who or What Caused It?"....usually the sequence of events will point back to yourself as being the cause........However for most....this is a socially unacceptable answer...;)
 
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?

I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.

It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
Click to expand...



It's not a case of "relying on luck," as you put it.

When an opponent misses, and leaves you safe even though he wasn't intending it, this is a bad roll for you that isn't one of your two choices.

Another example, you break off the stack in 14.1. Nobody can predict every path of every ball on that break. You play it such that you have the best chance of getting a next shot. But, sometimes even after you've planned the best you can, a ball traps you, and you've caught a bad roll. Similar events will happen in 8-ball and any other cluster-breaking games.

Sometimes in 9-ball, you have to travel the cueball all the way around the table, some 20 ft. of travel, or you have to put in a narrow window. The worst thing (in this example) is if the cueball miraculously stopped such that you're dead straight on the next ball, can't cheat the pocket to follow, and draw gets you nowhere. It's not silly to consider that a bad roll if you've hit the shot as good as that, but still got to the one position that gets you in trouble.



Bad rolls are just that. They exist. They're not excuses. They just are what they are.

Fred
 
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?
Click to expand...

A "bad roll" is the path taken by a ball when it is not the path that you intended.

Bad rolls are caused by incomplete understanding of the table's feng shui, and/or failure to harmonize your chi (or qi) with that of the table.
 
I define it as "one ore more aspects of the shot that the shooter wasn't in control of went badly." If it was something the shooter was in control of, you wouldn't call it a bad roll, but rather a good shot.

Now notice I don't say "the shooter had no way of controlling..." but rather "the shooter wasn't in control..." For me, they occur on the break where I'm not in control of object ball paths, on break-out shots where I'm not in control of ball paths, on kick shots where I'm not in control of the balls, or on thin cuts where I'm not in control of my speed. The better I get, the more I'll be able to be in control of these things. Pro players get very few bad rolls, because they know how to control almost every aspect of what happens on the table.

So if you get a lot of bad rolls, concentrate on what it is in any given shot that you weren't in control of, and try to figure out if there's something you could've done differently to bring it under your control.

-Andrew
 
"But, sometimes even after you've planned the best you can, a ball traps you, and you've caught a bad roll."

Cornerman hit a good point there - sometimes when you've executed a shot pretty much perfectly but still get a bad result you could argue that's a bad roll. in other words just unlucky really, nothing more you could have done.


However people also use the term bad roll, and indeed mouldy cob as well, to basically moan because they didn't get lucky. :rolleyes:
 
Dhakala said:
A "bad roll" is the path taken by a ball when it is not the path that you intended.

Bad rolls are caused by incomplete understanding of the table's feng shui, and/or failure to harmonize your chi (or qi) with that of the table.
Click to expand...


All this talk of Chinese food is making me hungry.
 
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?

I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.

It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
Click to expand...

I think there are legitimate bad rolls, like what Cornerman describes, but more often than not what (some) players call bad rolls are just bad shots. Personally it bothers me to no end to hear players complain about them. I don't know, maybe I just play with guys that complain too much but it's anoying to say the least. After a few silly complaints I usually pipe up and say something to shame them into shutting up for a while.

Alex
 
Cornerman said:
It's not a case of "relying on luck," as you put it.

When an opponent misses, and leaves you safe even though he wasn't intending it, this is a bad roll for you that isn't one of your two choices.


Fred
Click to expand...

That's what I would say, as long as he wasn't playing a two way shot.
 
Last edited:
mthornto said:
A lot of players complain about getting a bad roll. There are even a few on the board that complain about this a lot. This begs the question: What is a bad roll?

I am being serious. I don’t this the term “bad roll” means the same thing to everybody.

It seems to me, there are two circumstances where I hear people say they got a bad roll. When they miss the shape they were playing for and have no shot or when they did not have a plan to get shape, let the cue ball go, and did not get lucky. In the first instance, it was a bad shot that left you out of position so it does not seem right to complain about it. In the second case, the player was relying on luck and complaining about not getting lucky seems a bit silly.

How do you define a bad roll?
Click to expand...

Here is another facet of bad roll. One of the tables in my "home" bar where we play in a Monday night 8-ball league is nicknamed the "NASCAR" table. After your ball rolls straight for a foot or two, get ready for a hard left turn:eek: . I have literally missed the object ball completely twice trying to shoot soft safeties. You have to be very mindful of that table's "roll" (i.e. unlevelness) when your'e shooting on it and stroke the balls a little harder than you might want to.

Maniac

P.S. I forgot to mention that if you attempt to brush off the table before a match, you have to wait a few minutes to start waiting for the dust to settle:( .
 
If you break and squat your cue ball in the middle of the table, and then another ball comes flying around and kicks it into a pocket to make you scratch, that's a bad roll. Aside from that, you're responsible for whatever happens with the balls when you shoot.
 
i agree with maniac. a bad roll to me is when a ball is going the direction you have planned (into the pocket) then the table drifts the ball wide and misses. that is a bad roll. or when the oponent just shoots at the ball carelessly and lucks out by leaving you snookered...thats a bad roll IMO
 
Pool balls don't have a brain. They don't sit on the table and plot against one player or another. ("Hey Six Ball, let's have some fun and mess this guy up real bad!") The balls react to contact from the motion of a cue stick, or other balls. All the motion is created by the player who is shooting. The balls will react according to the laws of physics EVERY SINGLE TIME!

Sometimes, the balls don't do what we think they are going to do, but when that happens, the player was wrong. The balls always do what we as players cause them to do. There is no such thing as a bad roll or a good roll...only bad shots and good shots,. If you get a lucky roll, it's because the balls did something you didn't plan but still caused to happen. It's simply an accident.

Accidents happen all the time on the pool table.

Steve

Steve
 
If the equipments are sound then you can only get a bad roll on break. The rest is just poor ball control.
 
Bad roll?

Lack of thought through the entire shot is a sign of a weak mental game.
I think it's easier to just say "I got a bad roll" instead of I'm not useing my brain. Focus is an aqcuired trait and is a lot of WORK!
 
Paul Newman

It's like Fast Eddie said in the color of money.

"Sometimes the balls roll funny for everyone kid!"
 
A bad roll can be making a great kick, potting the ball and then getting kissed off another ball to scratch or get hooked. Sometimes those variables can be planned for, some cannot.
 
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