What is a bad roll?

bar box

I play on alot of Bar boxes and I must say I use the term "Bad Roll" to describe the cueball or object ball making very strange changes in direction caused by random spots on poor condition tables. I have seen a slow rolled cueball take a 40 degree turn for no apparent reason.. THAT is a bad roll!
 
when you break, plant the cueball in the middle of the table, and have it kicked into a pocket.
 
The rolls

Have you ever noticed that a bad roll only seems to happen at the end of a game near the end of a match. Remember that when playing pool > it is "your skill" against your "opponents luck".
 
I've always looked at a bad roll as something that occurs on the table that was mathematically not favored to happen. (Of course it's only a bad roll is if it happens to you.) A couple were said but like,

Going around the table 15-20 some odd feet only to get hooked behind the only ball that could have messed you up.

Great kicks that end with bad results.

When you play a safe that the cue ball travels a ways behind a stack of balls only to leave them in the slightest of windows that allow them a shot.

Just stuff like that. However I too agree people use the bad roll excuse far too often.

Mike
 
One good example of a bad roll is when you fire a shot into the heart of the pocket at medium speed only to have it bounce out off the back of the pocket.
 
I'd define a "bad roll" thusly:

The shooter takes into account all information he can about a shot ex ante, chooses what he considers to be the best play, executes it as well as he can reasonably expect, succeeds in his execution, and experiences a negative result that was not reasonably likely to occur ex ante or ex post.

For example, a few days ago in a 9-ball set my opponent played safe, leaving the object ball near the rail about six inches away from the corner pocket and leaving me hooked. I had a one-rail kick, and I knew if I hit the wrong side of the object ball, I'd probably scratch. I played to hit the correct side with speed for a kick-safe, succeeded in the shot, came down table and scratched anyway in another pocket. I'd define that as a 'bad roll' for me, even though it's theoretically possible that a sufficiently adept player could've anticipated such a bizarre roll.
 
tsw_521 said:
I'd define a "bad roll" thusly:

For example, a few days ago in a 9-ball set my opponent played safe, leaving the object ball near the rail about six inches away from the corner pocket and leaving me hooked. I had a one-rail kick, and I knew if I hit the wrong side of the object ball, I'd probably scratch. I played to hit the correct side with speed for a kick-safe, succeeded in the shot, came down table and scratched anyway in another pocket. I'd define that as a 'bad roll' for me, even though it's theoretically possible that a sufficiently adept player could've anticipated such a bizarre roll.
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Right, I disagree. I don't think that was a bad roll. You were clearly trying to leave the cue ball somewhere safe, just not in the pocket. I don't think that counts as a bad roll.

Alex
 
I don't use the term bad-roll as synonymous with bad-luck, but its boundaries are a little vague.

I'm basically in agreement with Fred, in that there are shots we are forced to play that are not perfectly predictable. This will be true no matter how great a player may be.

A knowledgeable player has learned ways to increase the percentages of success, but a bump into a cluster can be a mm off and the result can lose you the match.

Another example of a bad roll is when the CB rolls off its path due to a warped table, a divot in the cloth etc.

Good players can predict situations which have high percentages of uncertainty where bad rolls come into play, and change their stroke method or pattern selection to improve their odds, but they cannot entirely eliminate bad rolls from the game.

Colin
 
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supergreenman said:
One good example of a bad roll is when you fire a shot into the heart of the pocket at medium speed only to have it bounce out off the back of the pocket.
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Not really a bad roll...the shooter just hit it too hard.
Steve
 
Alex Kanapilly said:
Right, I disagree. I don't think that was a bad roll. You were clearly trying to leave the cue ball somewhere safe, just not in the pocket. I don't think that counts as a bad roll.

Alex
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Given that I played the shot as I intended, there are (broadly) three possible results: 1) I leave a shot, 2) I don't leave a shot, and 3) I scratch in another pocket. The shot is inherently unpredictable, and the odds of #3 occurring are so small that I'd consider that to be a 'bad roll.' It was an unusually bad result beyond the realm of predictability that occurred even though the shot was struck as intended.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Colin Colenso said:
A knowledgeable player has learned ways to increase the percentages of success, but a bump into a cluster can be a mm off and the result can lose you the match.
Good players can predict situations which have high percentages of uncertainty where bad rolls come into play, and change their stroke method or pattern selection to improve their odds, but they cannot entirely eliminate bad rolls from the game.

Colin
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Exactly!!! This is why we see even the greatest players in the world get their ass-in-a-crack every once in a while. The difference between them and players like myself is that they can get out of a bad situation a lot more often than I can. Never assume anything and always expect the unexpected.
Heck, you can set up a rack of bowling pins and put a chute all the way down the lane ending right into the 1-3 pocket, roll the same ball down the chute and you still ain't gonna get a strike everytime. That is where a slight variance in pin placement takes place changing the overall outcome. The same with striking the cueball. Can we really hit it in the very exact same place we want/or need to everytime? With a game that involves small balls, small pockets, and geometry (not ot mention English), the possibilities for disaster are endless!!!

Maniac
 
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