What is Pool without Gambling?

What is hunting with out killing something? What is golf without scoring. Playing pool without gambling is just for fun. Might have a social component but why put in years of practice to not try to make money.

I have a buddy who is a strong B player but wave some money at him and he folds. Show me a guy who can grind at what ever level he plays at to get the money. And I will have respect for that guy. Show me a guy who grinds for fun and I will say what's the point.
 
It's funny. When I was growing up, I never associated gambling with playing pool, any more than I associated gambling with playing baseball, or soccer, or tennis. They were simply competative events, that I wanted to win. It was never about money. It was always about winning.

I just wanted to be good at whatever sport I played.
 
I've found the responses to this thread absolutely fascinating. I am not a gambler, but when a group of close pals would get together, we'd occasionally do our race to 5 for $25.....thats about as high stakes as we ever got....and it was all in good fun....if someone wanted to play, but was broke that day, someone would carry him....it was a loose setup and fun.... I have seen gambling to the point that it gets out of hand....playing ofr thousands, games erupting into fist fights, etc.....at that point, its no longer a game and no longer fun, and I'll be nowhere near it.......I just love the game. I can play it for hours with anyone willing to play with me for no money, or by myself, or with a few close friends for a few bucks.....usually the winner of the night buys everyone dinner anyway, or supplies the beer for the next go-round.
 
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macguy said:
It is nice to romanticize the game a may do it myself many times. The thing is, to really play the game you have to play it for real. This can be gambling, tournaments or even league play that can often be some of the most pressure of all because others are depending on you.

To just play for fun all the time is I hate to say it, often people fooling themselves. You come in the pool room and a guy who plays straight pool tells you he had an 80 ball run. Sounds good but if you saw it you would see a couple of backwards break shot cuts, a bank or two along with a tough combo. None that he would have shot in a real game. That 80 ball run should have ended at 12 or 20 maybe. The guy is fooling himself as to how he really plays.

You see it as well in 9 ball for fun. Banking balls, playing few safeties and the biggest thing of all, missed balls that are completely forgotten because they don't mean anything.. If he had missed those balls in a real game and it cost him he would have nightmares about those shots. I remember shots I missed and things I did wrong years ago and learned from because they cost me.

Pool is a lot of fun to play and no one should gamble if they are not comfortable doing it. Tournaments though I think are different. Many players who go and only watch should really enter now and then. Put themselves to the test and see if all that practice and money spent on cues was worth the effort. They may learn something about themselves that can be valuable. Just a few thoughts.
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I agree with what thou say about team play. Team play can involve much more pressure IMO than merely playing for money. Nothing like having a team watching you waiting to see if you can pocket a tough shot nor get out in a tough situation. I think that this social pressure scales up to the pro level too, as in the recent mosconi cup.

As for tournaments, I really don't like them much. Way too much time spent waiting for your match. And they take way too long as well. The. Second to last tourney I entered I was undefeated in the winners bracket and I had to wait an hour and a half just to play the final match of the event. It bored me to tears. I even though about just leaving and not playing. Staying in a pool room until 2 am or later is no longer worth it for me, especially just to win a member couple of hundred at best. Not very good return per hour if you ask me. Maybe a larger tourney would be better, but not much of those available in my area I think.

The great thing about life and this game is that it can mean whatever you want it to mean whenever you so choose. Can't get much better than that. Hell, it sure beats golf cause you can play it during a thunderstorm ha ha ha.
 
gambling

It gives some excitement and can be a rush. I like to gamble! But I am not that good.
 
jay helfert said:
Without gambling it's just a great game to play. Some of my favorite moments in pool have been when a good players gather around a table and show each other shots. Underneath it all, we are kindred spirits in pool and enjoy the challenge of the game. There doesn't always have to be a bet, even among good players. I've seen the other side of this, and it's cool too.
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This. Pool is certainly a game that lends itself well to gambling for a number of reasons. But it is also a great game in and of itself. Proof of this is simple, many people enjoy knocking balls around or practicing solo. How many poker players practice alone?

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
 
The Kiss said:
What is hunting with out killing something? What is golf without scoring. Playing pool without gambling is just for fun. Might have a social component but why put in years of practice to not try to make money.

I have a buddy who is a strong B player but wave some money at him and he folds. Show me a guy who can grind at what ever level he plays at to get the money. And I will have respect for that guy. Show me a guy who grinds for fun and I will say what's the point.
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Well, hedonism is the point. If something ain't fun, why do it? I only have so much time off of work. Why in the world would I choose to not have fun? Now, it just so happens that pool is super challenging and the fun hinges upon you pushing yourselves as a player. After all, if you arent trying your best, why bother? I guess I just don't need the cash to make me try my best. Looks like some do. No problem. Life can accommodate everyone. I think that life can be pretty easy some times. You find something you like to do, and do more of that. If that's gambling, have at it. Nothing wrong with that at all.
 
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FairladyZ said:
I've found the responses to this thread absolutely fascinating. I am not a gambler, but when a group of close pals would get together, we'd occasionally do our race to 5 for $25.....thats about as high stakes as we ever got....and it was all in good fun....if someone wanted to play, but was broke that day, someone would carry him....it was a loose setup and fun.... I have seen gambling to the point that it gets out of hand....playing ofr thousands, games erupting into fist fights, etc.....at that point, its no longer a game and no longer fun, and I'll be nowhere near it.......I just love the game. I can play it for hours with anyone willing to play with me for no money, or by myself, or with a few close friends for a few bucks.....usually the winner of the night buys everyone dinner anyway, or supplies the beer for the next go-round.
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You seem like my kinda guy. I will play for hours regardless. Some of the most fun I have at the game are when I get some pool buddies at one of our houses and we play cheap ring games. I usually take $100 in singles and we play 9 or ten or even 15 ball five or six handed with 3 money balls for $2 or $3 a pop. Its great fun because they are a good group and can be good sports. But it is the comradarie and friendly competition that does it for me, not the money.

The beer helps out too.
 
From a BBC interview with Stephen Hendry, 7 times World snooker Champion

"It’s nice when you’re beating an opponent and kicking him when he’s down. That’s what sport is all about, the only reason for playing.”
 
ktrunout said:
I'm interested in what people really think about this subject.
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Any time you play pool for money, if the bet is low such that it would not make a dent in your wallet, or hurts you, it is called sociable play not gambling by any means. When some people bet their month salary all the time then that is gambling. IMO every pool player should play for money, unless they are casual , not regular players then for killing time it is ok.
 
jay helfert said:
Without gambling it's just a great game to play. Some of my favorite moments in pool have been when a good players gather around a table and show each other shots. Underneath it all, we are kindred spirits in pool and enjoy the challenge of the game. There doesn't always have to be a bet, even among good players. I've seen the other side of this, and it's cool too.
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Bingo. That's what pool is all about for me. I can play alone, for money, without money, just with friends, and it's all good. Pool does change when you gamble, I won't deny that. However, I do believe that playing just for fun is not to be dismissed. For me, pool holds an intrinsic value.
 
SJDinPHX said:
I guess I just can't relate to playing for FUN !..To me, if there is nothing riding on the outcome of a contest, then why bother ? :
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The same reason we play baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc.. for the love of the game. Most folks will never understand that part of it, and I get that....

But, the passion is in the sport you love... I could play baseball till I dropped dead, and prolly will since I still play in an over 45 league... nothing on the line, hell, we gotta pay $300 per man, just to play on the team, to cover costs for fields, umpires, baseballs, etc.... but if you don't have that passion for pool, you'll never understand, how someone could play like it is a world series with no money on the line... cause we have fun playing at our best, and giving it everything we got, and getting the results for busting your arse...and someone saying, "nice play" after you make the catch.

Being 51, I don't need to dive for a ball up the middle anymore, nobody is gonna call me out that I did not get to the ball, but I do it because that is the 'fun", to play at your best...

Maybe why pool is kinda lost, most don't have that passion for it... I know one HOF'er, and the ONLY reason he played was to make a living, he didn't like to shoot, and the first chance he got (other endeavors that paid more) he left it. He liked the money, not so much the game ....
 
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ChicagoRJ said:
The same reason we play baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc.. for the love of the game. Most folks will never understand that part of it, and I get that....
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Bingo. I've always said that if you only love pool when you are betting, you don't truly love it.
 
sjm said:
Bingo. I've always said that if you only love pool when you are betting, you don't truly love it.
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I have to agree with this.

A professional player plays pool for exactly what the name implies, their PROFESSION....to them, its not longer a game or a hobby, they're doing it for a living/extra income.....not unlike a machanic, a pilot, or whatever....they build cars for a living, or fly planes for a living....it isn't a hobby or a game. When you play pool for a living (whether its tournaments, giving lessons, or just high stakes games at the local pool room), you're not doing it for the 'fun of it' anymore....and to me that changes everything.... I never want to be a professional pool player....because then it wouldn't be a fun way to get together with friends and recreate.... Even for no money, you can still compete and have a lot of fun..... Of course this is very subjective and everyone will have their opinion....but that's just mine.
 
Varies with each person. Some equate it to just a game, like baseball. So, to them, gambling doesn't fit. Others spend thousands of hours and dollars trying to get as good as they can. Some of them would like to see some kind of return on their investment. To others, pool has always been classified as a gambling game, and they can't comprehend why anyone would play for free outside of practice anymore than one would play poker or roulette just for the fun of it. Different strokes for different folks.
 
I posted this in another thread, one that was a great deal anti-gambling.

I'm speaking for myself only here, winning the money was/is seldom the goal for me. Playing for money is a means to an end, not the end in itself. Yes, I've enjoyed taking money from some people. In particular, someone who thought their skill level was way over mine and they had bragged about how bad they could beat me, spotting me quite a bit in Straight pool. I've liked coming out on the winning end of a ring game after four or five hours. I like taking someone's money whose intent is just to win mine. Hustle in reverse, so to speak.
I've said this before, playing for money gives me a reason not to miss. It sharpens my concentration. Keeps me down on the shot 'till the ball goes in the pocket. I admit that there have been times when I've played for money and this didn't happen, but more often than not, it did. It's kind of like risking something in hopes of some reward. I've never been able to play real well in tournaments and I've hated playing for nothing and losing to people well, well below my own skill level just because they wouldn't bet two dollars that fat meat was greasy, to quote the fat man. I've said this before also, it's the way some of us learned to play! And George Fels said in his book "By all means, play for a little something. It will help to learn to handle the unique pressures of the game a bit better", or words to that effect. I just don't like people making an agenda against gambling just because they know somebody with a gambling problem and talking like the rest of us who play for money are dirt bags and that all gambling is wrong. Sorry for the rant. And, I always tell people that playing for money will help them get better faster. It's not the only way, sure, but it's a lot faster than trying to learn to play for pride, for most people, at least in my experience
 
Neil said:
Varies with each person. Some equate it to just a game, like baseball. So, to them, gambling doesn't fit. Others spend thousands of hours and dollars trying to get as good as they can. Some of them would like to see some kind of return on their investment. To others, pool has always been classified as a gambling game, and they can't comprehend why anyone would play for free outside of practice anymore than one would play poker or roulette just for the fun of it. Different strokes for different folks.
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I get plenty of return on my time invested in pool, it just doesn't come in the form of money.

I don't begrudge those who feel that it isn't "real" if there isn't any money riding on it, but I would hope that they wouldn't feel the need to make me feel like a nit if I choose not to gamble, as well.

It's plenty "real" to me. "Really" important to me. My one true escape these days, and I treasure it. And not just to bang stuff around, as others pointed out earlier, I feel horrible when I let my league team down by playing badly. Not even taking into account how disappointed I am in myself.

So yes, it's plenty "real" to this non-gambler....
 
Another thought crossed my mind. Take a top salesman he spends years honing his skills and he makes money as his results dictate. But ask a salesman what is more fun grinding away banging on doors never making a sale or making sales.

To me this is what pool has meant to me 25 plus years of honing my craft now i want to apply what I know for for some $$$$

While I will play for fun and I do get great enjoyment out of playing for fun I just like the added incentive of a few bucks on the line it brings out the best. i see no reason to try and grind out games for fun why bother making an effort.

Now I am going to get some dinner then down to the man cave to shoot some pool:thumbup:
 
It's like Crisco, it is really enjoyable, but bad for the whole body.

I'm not sure that gambling is pro pool's worst enemy, but the advertisement of the system hurts pool immensely. It hurts our Pro players to gain legitimately non - pool related sponsorship. And that hurts our legitimacy as a sport.

Golf (and poker lately) has navigated this dilemma better. But don't believe that they don't have a "seedy underworld." I can remember MJ getting chased at every course in NC during the 90's by hustlers in the know. Of course, it eventually drew media attention. But the details were not spread to the masses.

Why? My guess is that the networks invested too much in long term, high dollar PGA related contracts. Added to the wealthy country clubs that learned to control the hustlers long ago. BTW, it wasn't that long ago that pool was on "even par" with golf in country clubs. Of course, I'm not "in the know" and have to guess.

Daren

Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
 
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After rereading OP, I should also say that gambling has long seasoned our US pro's. This has been our talent developing "pipeline." It has also attracted many fans to the sport.

This discussion is really best exemplified in the feud between Fats and Mosconi. The hustler versus the world champion (that was made for tv and decided often by challenges rather than tournaments). Also, compare the Miz to most any of the 90's tour players. He had a lucrative Miller endorsement and did not gamble. I've heard stories of others barking at him away from the cameras. Anyway, this discussion has been going around since tours have been possible for pro's.

Me? I like them both. But, we (in the America's [meaning US, Canada, Mexico, etc]) need a two thronged approach at talent-building. One gambling and one tourney. Both can serve us equally. ...As long as everyone stops outing players and advertising recent match up's. Not only bad for business and "nitty" but also bad for our image.

Daren

Respect, Courage, and Commitment!
 
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