What is the best shaft?

[manwon]

LOL.
sorry, i was having a bad day. i was a little rough.

fred was very correct in his explanation.

give a older guy who is a good player and plays with regular shaft sometime a 314. he will look like a fool with it. because he is used to deflection.

when you aim with a regular shaft or 314 with no english, you aim at the same spot on the object ball.
now, with a regular shaft, if you are using any kind of side spin (L or R english), the spot you aim at changes.
if you use english with a 314, the aiming spot is almost the same as if you used no english at all.
like fred said, they lightened the front of the shaft, and its also to do with the long taper, and soft ferrule.
you can also generate much more spin (english) with a 314 shaft than a regular shaft.
downside, they don't hit as nice as a top notch regular shaft.
i am more interested in playability myself.

(i tried to give you a very simple, practical explaination)

so when you say, and i quote "Do not be deceived by the laminated shaft myth, it's the player not the shaft, and if you do not believe this you have gotten the shaft!!!!!" , this couldn't be any farther than the truth.

happy holidays yourself bud.


chris G <--------(hoping santa brings him another 314 with a med. moori)

PS. i look loke a fool playing with a regular 13mm shaft. give me a 314, and ill give ya the 7 out and the breaks.

Thanks Chris for taking the time to answer my question, no hard feelings we all have bad day's and this I do understand very well.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, however we can still agree to disagree.

Some of the best players that ever lived have used a standard non-laminated shaft and they played lights out with it, this is a good stroke and some natural ability.

Shafts are only a tool, good stroke over comes the problem you are concerned with, however a laminated shaft will not compensate for poor stroke.

It really matters not what you use, like other posters have said if you play well with it, why change.

The myth that I am talking about concerning laminated shafts is that they are the secret and the answer to a lack of individual ability which they are not and they never will be.

Another fact about laminated shafts is that they are over priced. These shafts are manufactured in China for pennies on the dollar, and they will not last nearly as long a standard shaft either. After about 8 to 12 months of continuous use they begin to lose the ability to perform in the manner that you have outlined in the above post.

This is due to the break down of the cheap materials used, ie, plastic ferrule and the foam insert inside it. I have also seen and repaired shafts that the manufacturer would not fix that not only had the problems above but were also de-laminating.

The top players know about the break down of materials in these shafts, this why they change theirs around every 8 months. It is the general public who have not been properly informed about these facts, and that is my point of view on this subject, and this is also what I mean by getting the shaft.


Merry Christmas to you and your's and may you have health, wealth and prosperity throughout the coming year.

Manwon

 

[bogey54311]

What is the best low deflection lot of english action shaft?

BTW, this was the original question.
if 50% actually think regular shafts (voted as"other") have lower deflection than a 314, like i said, 5% of the guys here in AZland actually know what deflection is.
95% pretend to know.



chris G

 

[bogey54311]

Thanks Chris for taking the time to answer my question, no hard feelings we all have bad day's and this I do understand very well.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, however we can still agree to disagree.

Some of the best players that ever lived have used a standard non-laminated shaft and they played lights out with it, this is a good stroke and some natural ability.

Shafts are only a tool, good stroke over comes the problem you are concerned with, however a laminated shaft will not compensate for poor stroke.

It really matters not what you use, like other posters have said if you play well with it, why change.

The myth that I am talking about concerning laminated shafts is that they are the secret and the answer to a lack of individual ability which they are not and they never will be.

Another fact about laminated shafts is that they are over priced. These shafts are manufactured in China for pennies on the dollar, and they will not last nearly as long a standard shaft either. After about 8 to 12 months of continuous use they begin to lose the ability to perform in the manner that you have outlined in the above post.

This is due to the break down of the cheap materials used, ie, plastic ferrule and the foam insert inside it. I have also seen and repaired shafts that the manufacturer would not fix that not only had the problems above but were also de-laminating.

The top players know about the break down of materials in these shafts, this why they change theirs around every 8 months. It is the general public who have not been properly informed about these facts, and that is my point of view on this subject, and this is also what I mean by getting the shaft.


Merry Christmas to you and your's and may you have health, wealth and prosperity throughout the coming year.

Manwon

i have about 8 predators. ive never personally had a problem with one in 5+ years of owning one.

AND like regular shafts, some predators hit better than others....way better. i have a 4.45 oz predator i wouldn't sell for $500. (and 4 more over 4oz.) some wood hits better than other wood.

lets agree to disagree.............

merry christmas back at ya........


chris G

 

[manwon]

i have about 8 predators. ive never personally had a problem with one in 5+ years of owning one.

AND like regular shafts, some predators hit better than others....way better. i have a 4.45 oz predator i wouldn't sell for $500. (and 4 more over 4oz.) some wood hits better than other wood.

lets agree to disagree.............

merry christmas back at ya........


chris G

There you go Chris, you siad it yourself, some Predator shafts hit better than others, and you think it may be because of the wood!!

Chris these shafts are made on an assemble line not grown, they are suppose to be made to exacting standards, you would think for the price of these shafts that they should have a testing process to ensure that every shaft hits like the next, but they do not!!!

It is really a shame when some one pays this kind of money and really gets the shaft, not a shaft!!

Have a nice night!!!

Manwon

 

[despotic931]

I am just going to jump in here and state the fact that yes predator shafts are mass produced, but so are so many other pool cues, cues that cost much more than a predator shaft. So, am I being told then that all "high end" "normal deflection" production cues have the same "hit"? However, predator cues don't? And, why is that?

 

[bogey54311]

There you go Chris, you siad it yourself, some Predator shafts hit better than others, and you think it may be because of the wood!!

Chris these shafts are made on an assemble line not grown, they are suppose to be made to exacting standards, you would think for the price of these shafts that they should have a testing process to ensure that every shaft hits like the next, but they do not!!!

It is really a shame when some one pays this kind of money and really gets the shaft, not a shaft!!:

Manwon

last time i looked, a top end maker (scruggs, black, mottey etc.) charge $250+ for a ivory ferruled shaft. and believe me, those don't hit the same either.
(predators cost less.....$184 shipped on ebay)

you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper........


chris G

 

[manwon]

I am just going to jump in here and state the fact that yes predator shafts are mass produced, but so are so many other pool cues, cues that cost much more than a predator shaft. So, am I being told then that all "high end" "normal deflection" production cues have the same "hit"? However, predator cues don't? And, why is that?

No you are not being told that any and all production cues have the same hit as any Predator product.

What I am saying is that for the price of a Predator shaft, first of all, they should have a testing process to insure integrity of the hit. I have had many customers complain that one shaft is totally different than another that they own, and for the price this should not be a factor.

Then second, I am saying that Predator shafts do break down and lose their ability to perform as advertised within a years use, which is also a factor that should not happen for the price.

Third, this break down is due to the ferrule material, and the foam inserts used in the ferrule and the front of the shaft. Which also are the main features that give these shafts their ability to perform as they do.

I am not saying that all production non-laminated shafts hit the same, they do not. This is due to the hardness of the wood, age of the wood, and many others factors, but when you find that you like and get used to it, it will last longer, and be more consistent over time than a Predator shaft.

However, when you are pie laminating wood into a square and then turning it round, the compression rate of the wood during this process is exactly the same each time due the mechanized procedures used, which should make the integrity of the finished product very similar each time, un-like the growth factors of natural shaft wood.

If you like Predator products that is fine with me, do they work within the requirements most not all do, for a period of time. Will a person adjust as the shaft loses it ability to perform, yes they will, because it will be gradual and in most cases they will not notice the difference until they buy a new shaft.

This is my opinion, agreeing with it or not is ok by me!!!!

Merry Christmas

Manwon

 

[SCCues]

This is a matter that is somewhat debated. A little while back, there was a list that showed what cues some of the pro's were playing with and whether or not a an aftermarket shaft was used. There weren't as many as you think.

One reason I can think of as to why some players use the Predator over the original could very well be because, when you're on the tournament trail, and you have an immediate need for a new shaft, you can pick up a Predator almost anywhere, whereas, you may have to wait for a replacement one from a cuemaker.

I am of the mind that I pick a particular cuemaker's cue because of the way that it plays....the whole cue. They build their cues with a particular playability in mind, and fine tune their shafts to work well with their particular construction technique. Why mess with that? Otherwise, you could pick up a Budweiser cue and slap a Predator shaft on it. I think some cuemakers take an affront to people wanting them to slap a Predator as opposed to their shaft on a cue when requesting a custom.

Lisa

I've played pool for years and when predator shafts came out I thought it was a gimmick to sell cues and shafts. A good friend of mine felt the same way and we laughed at people who spent money buying predator shafts to improve their game. Well my friend got to try a predator at a friends house on his home table and he was impressed enough to buy a predator shaft for his cue. We talked on the phone and he kept trying to convince me to try one and I resisted thinking that he didn't know what he was talking about, but I finally gave in and bought a predator 314 for my cue and i've never regretted it. I used to have to allow for deflection when I used english on cut shots and it was a guessing game from one cue to another, but with a predator shaft the aim is very consistent and you aim without guessing.

From your post it doesn't sound like you've ever tried a predator shaft and I would suggest that you try one if you ever get a chance. It will take a week or two to get used to the way they play, but it's well worth it. I can assure you pro players don't use predator shafts because they are easy to replace if you need a new shaft on the tournament trail!

 

[despotic931]

No you are not being told that any and all production cues have the same hit as any Predator product.

What I am saying is that for the price of a Predator shaft, first of all, they should have a testing process to insure integrity of the hit. I have had many customers complain that one shaft is totally different than another that they own, and for the price this should not be a factor.

Then second, I am saying that Predator shafts do break down and lose their ability to perform as advertised within a years use, which is also a factor that should not happen for the price.

Third, this break down is due to the ferrule material, and the foam inserts used in the ferrule and the front of the shaft. Which also are the main features that give these shafts their ability to perform as they do.

I am not saying that all production non-laminated shafts hit the same, they do not. This is due to the hardness of the wood, age of the wood, and many others factors, but when you find that you like and get used to it, it will last longer, and be more consistent over time than a Predator shaft.

However, when you are pie laminating wood into a square and then turning it round, the compression rate of the wood during this process is exactly the same each time due the mechanized procedures used, which should make the integrity of the finished product very similar each time, un-like the growth factors of natural shaft wood.

If you like Predator products that is fine with me, do they work within the requirements most not all do, for a period of time. Will a person adjust as the shaft loses it ability to perform, yes they will, because it will be gradual and in most cases they will not notice the difference until they buy a new shaft.

This is my opinion, agreeing with it or not is ok by me!!!!

Merry Christmas

Manwon

When you are pie laminating wood, it is still wood, and therefor it still has the same qualities "hardness of wood, age of wood, and many other factors" that plauge solid shafts. Besides isn't the term "hit" subjective anyways?

As far as your argument about the pros changing their shafts every nine months, I know pro players who don't use laminated shafts who change their shafts, if not their whole cue every nine months.

I personaly think this whole argument is subjective, and while I don't agree with you manwon about the shafts breaking down, I was just interested in your point of view. As a new predator owner (christmas ) I am wanting to know all sides of this long debated argument...

-J

 

[bogey54311]

When you are pie laminating wood, it is still wood, and therefor it still has the same qualities "hardness of wood, age of wood, and many other factors" that plauge solid shafts. Besides isn't the term "hit" subjective anyways?

As far as your argument about the pros changing their shafts every nine months, I know pro players who don't use laminated shafts who change their shafts, if not their whole cue every nine months.

I personaly think this whole argument is subjective, and while I don't agree with you manwon about the shafts breaking down, I was just interested in your point of view. As a new predator owner (christmas ) I am wanting to know all sides of this long debated argument...

-J

ive NEVER heard of them breaking down either.

enjoy your 314.


chris G

 

[manwon]

When you are pie laminating wood, it is still wood, and therefor it still has the same qualities "hardness of wood, age of wood, and many other factors" that plauge solid shafts. Besides isn't the term "hit" subjective anyways?

As far as your argument about the pros changing their shafts every nine months, I know pro players who don't use laminated shafts who change their shafts, if not their whole cue every nine months.

I personaly think this whole argument is subjective, and while I don't agree with you manwon about the shafts breaking down, I was just interested in your point of view. As a new predator owner (christmas ) I am wanting to know all sides of this long debated argument...

-J

When you are pie laminating wood, it is still wood, and therefor it still has the same qualities "hardness of wood, age of wood, and many other factors" that plague solid shafts.

The above statement is only partly true. By cutting any piece of wood you allow the natural internal tension that all wood has to relax. The purpose of laminating wood into beams, shafts, or anything else is to relieve the internal stress of the wood, to increase the strength of the item, and to be able to span longer runs in a straight line which is impossible for non-laminated lumber.

The qualities of the wood are surly the same, I mean wood is wood, but when wood is laminated it no longer has the same properties, other than it's cellular structure in common with what it was.

It now has an entirely different set of qualities than the un-laminated wood it was made from, this is due to the laminating process. During this process adhesives are used, the wood is heated and pressed to exacting standards, which are the same every time. The chemicals along with the pressure required completely change the qualities of the wood.

So, on this subject I do not agree with you, but who cares it's almost Christmas, and we are both entitled to our own opinions.

Have a great night!!!

Manwon

 

[TheGreenHornet]

can anyone here give me a good deal on a predator shaft? 3/8 silver ring 30"?

 

[Hal2]

Tap tap tap...

I may add you will wish you never have to change the tip, that everything will stay forever the same...

Do you play with your Balabuska and break with your Szamboti? Just curious. I met a guy doing that in Japan.

Richard,
Now I break using your Xbreaker. However for many years (more than 16 yrs) I broke using Gus's cue. When Gus handed me the cue I asked him if I could break with it. His reply was "Sure, what good would a cue be if you couldn't break with it."

Best Regards,
Hal