What is the cause of this ?

JoeyInCali said:
Why is everyone assuming this is Willie's shaft or he cut it?:D
I think he's just testing everyone.
Click to expand...

FWIW, He asked the question. The answer's the same no matter who's shaft it is.

Mason,
Chatter is random cuts, this definitely has pattern.
 
my powerfeed has like 5 or 6 different speeds. when i first got it i messed with speeds and got a similar pattern at the faster travel speeds.
 
KJ Cues said:
Willee,
Cut your feed rate at least in half. Yeah, it's now going to take you twice as long but are you really in that much of a hurry? Patience is a virtue in cue building. It contributes to the therapeutic process. Speed in cue REPAIR is essential. Speed in CUE BUILDING is your enemy.

It's not resonance, if it were, you'd see 'chatter'. It's simply a matter of too fast of a feed rate & too small of a cutter bit. You're literally cutting threads. I'm guessing about 10 or 12 TPI. Left-hand to boot.

Question : Are you running your router towards the tail-stock or towards the chuck. Guessing again, from the pic, I'd say you're running towards the tail. Go the other way. On a machine tool lathe, ALWAYS work towards the chuck unless the job itself is prohibiting you from doing so.
Click to expand...

Now that is interesting.
I always thought you cut toward the tail stock ... conventional cut.
Gonna try the other way (climb cut) but I think past experience was that the cut was not as smooth.

FWIW: That is not a shaft I cut.
However I have cut many in the past that looked like that.
It is just part of the learning process.
Most of the time slowing the rotational speed of the shaft will cure the problem.
If not then also reducing the feed rate of the cutter was required.
This is what happens when you cut to fast.
Bleieve it or not the vibration can get so intense the shaft will cut into.

On the next pass my CueMonster cut .5 mm off this same shaft very smoothly at 9 IPM with a 6 tooth cutter.
 
Last edited:
Mr Hoppe said:
If it were due to vibration, you would probably see the effect primarily in the middle of the piece and not near the ends where the piece is more secured. I've seen this same pattern when tapering shafts on a table saw/lathe combo on humid days. Days before and after were dryer and cut was very smooth. Feed and rotation speeds were precisely controlled and consistent. It'll cut right out on next pass, so no problems unless you thought that was going to be the final pass . . .
Mr H
Click to expand...

True, if you are just reducing the diameter in preparation for the final cut it is not a problem.
It will cut out if you slow things down on the final and allow the equipment to make a smooth cut.
 
Last edited:
KJ Cues said:
Willee,
Cut your feed rate at least in half. Yeah, it's now going to take you twice as long but are you really in that much of a hurry? Patience is a virtue in cue building. It contributes to the therapeutic process. Speed in cue REPAIR is essential. Speed in CUE BUILDING is your enemy.

It's not resonance, if it were, you'd see 'chatter'. It's simply a matter of too fast of a feed rate & too small of a cutter bit. You're literally cutting threads. I'm guessing about 10 or 12 TPI. Left-hand to boot.

Question : Are you running your router towards the tail-stock or towards the chuck. Guessing again, from the pic, I'd say you're running towards the tail. Go the other way. On a machine tool lathe, ALWAYS work towards the chuck unless the job itself is prohibiting you from doing so.
Click to expand...

KJ,

I agree with you but if your router bits cut to the right wouldn't you be going against it when cutting in reverse torward the chuck that is mounted on the left side, and wouldn't that cause a problem ????


- Eddie Wheat
 
Last edited:
Conventional/Climb cut doesn't apply here. You are shaving the surface of a rotating cylinder. It doesn't matter that the cutter is coming up from the bottom of it's rotation when cutting towards the chuck. This is not 'cutting in reverse'. Cutting towards the tail IS cutting in reverse unless the lathe's chuck is spinning in reverse.

Let me give you an example that may illustrate this point. Say you want to mill a slot in the center of the surface a plate through it's middle. It doesn't matter whether you come in from the left side or right side. Climb or conventional cut doesn't come into play here. If you were to now widen that slot with a second pass then yes, it very much makes a difference. You'd want the bit cutting with a digging or shoveling-out cut (NOT CLIMBING) to maintain accuracy and finish of cut surface. Climbing-cut momentarily traps the chip in the flute of the bit and produces an unsatisfactory finish which can effect accuracy of cut.

You might want to chuck-up a scrap dowel and try it. Then you can prove it to yourself.
 
OK ... as others have said ... I think what caused those marks primarily was speed. To little rotation speed or to much feed speed could do it.

If you are making intermediate cuts this is not a real issue.
If it is the final shaft cut then you will not end up with the programed profile after sanding out the marks and that isnt cool :frown:

Anyhow ... final cuts were made on my CueMonster CNC and the shafts came out nice and smooth.

:dance:
 
KJ Cues said:
Conventional/Climb cut doesn't apply here. You are shaving the surface of a rotating cylinder. It doesn't matter that the cutter is coming up from the bottom of it's rotation when cutting towards the chuck. This is not 'cutting in reverse'. Cutting towards the tail IS cutting in reverse unless the lathe's chuck is spinning in reverse.

Let me give you an example that may illustrate this point. Say you want to mill a slot in the center of the surface a plate through it's middle. It doesn't matter whether you come in from the left side or right side. Climb or conventional cut doesn't come into play here. If you were to now widen that slot with a second pass then yes, it very much makes a difference. You'd want the bit cutting with a digging or shoveling-out cut (NOT CLIMBING) to maintain accuracy and finish of cut surface. Climbing-cut momentarily traps the chip in the flute of the bit and produces an unsatisfactory finish which can effect accuracy of cut.

You might want to chuck-up a scrap dowel and try it. Then you can prove it to yourself.
Click to expand...


Thankyou very much for the insight.... I will experiment with it and incorporate it into my cuebuilding procedure if the results are advantageous !!!


- Eddie Wheat
 
WheatCues said:
Thankyou very much for the insight.... I will experiment with it and incorporate it into my cuebuilding procedure if the results are advantageous !!!


- Eddie Wheat
Click to expand...
Is there a reverse A command on Align Rite?
 
JoeyInCali said:
Is there a reverse A command on Align Rite?
Click to expand...


Sure !!!!

But I've built all cues you have seen to date with my modified porper model B

I never needed the align-rite I just thought it would be neat to have for fancy inlays so that I would never have to say no to the customer if they had to have the bells and whistles too !

I haven't gotten very proficient with it due to the fact that I'm too busy building cues and dealing with life to devote serious time to that machine !!!

But I'm realizing that mabey I would be more efficient with my cuebuilding if I would just trust the machine to do the work rather than myself !


- Eddie WHeat
 
WheatCues said:
Sure !!!!

But I've built all cues you have seen to date with my modified porper model B

I never needed the align-rite I just thought it would be neat to have for fancy inlays so that I would never have to say no to the customer if the had to have the bells and whistles too !

I haven't gotten very proficient with it due to the fact that I'm too busy building cues and dealing with life to devote sewrious time with that machine !!!

But I'm realizing that mabey I would be more efficient with my cuebuilding if I would just trust the machine to do the work rather than myself !


- Eddie WHeat
Click to expand...
If you take a pass towards the tailstock, I think it'd be cleaner if you reverse the A command .
Specially hogging out rods to cones. One pass towards the chuck then towards the tailstock I think would do it.
It takes the Porper about 6-8 minutes per pass.
I believe it takes the Align just one minute and much cleaner.
 
JoeyInCali said:
If you take a pass towards the tailstock, I think it'd be cleaner if you reverse the A command .
Specially hogging out rods to cones. One pass towards the chuck then towards the tailstock I think would do it.
It takes the Porper about 6-8 minutes per pass.
I believe it takes the Align just one minute and much cleaner.
Click to expand...


Yeah it's a pretty amazing machine.. I just have a hard time giving up control or should I say the "sense of touch" when cutting woods becasue I have done it so long by hand contact and have direct control over the cut rather than using a mouse !!!

It's a wierd thing to watch a machine cut everyhing so quickly and smoothly in a fracion of the time... it almost makes you feel antiquated and useless when witnessing the overwhelming efficiency these machines can display....

So I guess I need to quit looking at it as an opponent and view it as an teammate and bond with it.... it's just a little intimidating sometimes and that really bugs the crap out of me becasue I'm just not that type of person who's afraid or uncomfortable with anything !!!!

Anyways mabey I said a little more than I should have... but it's the truth !




- Eddie WHeat
 
Eddie, the big advantage is that the CNC can be doing one thing while you are doing another. Almost like another hired hand in the shop.
Course you do need to invest time in learning how to tell it what you want it to do and setting it up to do that.

I find mine most useful finial tapering shafts and cutting many inlay pieces at once.
I always cut more than I need and keep them in a plastic box for the next time I need that inlay.
 
WilleeCue said:
Eddie, the big advantage is that the CNC can be doing one thing while you are doing another. Almost like another hired hand in the shop.
Course you do need to invest time in learning how to tell it what you want it to do and setting it up to do that.

I find mine most useful finial tapering shafts and cutting many inlay pieces at once.
I always cut more than I need and keep them in a plastic box for the next time I need that inlay.
Click to expand...
It's hell when the box gets knocked over, though.
 
WilleeCue said:
Eddie, the big advantage is that the CNC can be doing one thing while you are doing another. Almost like another hired hand in the shop.
Course you do need to invest time in learning how to tell it what you want it to do and setting it up to do that.

I find mine most useful finial tapering shafts and cutting many inlay pieces at once.
I always cut more than I need and keep them in a plastic box for the next time I need that inlay.
Click to expand...
Yeah but i'ts fun watching manual taper machines go at it realllllly slow with the loud router and chips/dust flying. It might be artful too.
Joey~Thinks it doesn't matter what cuts the shaft. Prep, centering and wood quality are more important~
 
JoeyInCali said:
Yeah but i'ts fun watching manual taper machines go at it realllllly slow with the loud router and chips/dust flying. It might be artful too.
Joey~Thinks it doesn't matter what cuts the shaft. Prep, centering and wood quality are more important~
Click to expand...


Lol !!!

I have to agree.. it's the whole concert with the special effects that make it feel more productive and self gratifying !!!!


- Eddie WHeat
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top