What is the UPA doing?

Evidently everyone has their minds made up and refuse to look at the facts.

Did any of you go to the UPA website and read the Newsletter?

Do you know that the World Summit and UPA Championship will be televised on TV?
And maybe the dates were determined by ESPN.

Do you realize that Danny Basavich is now a millionaire? Yes a millionaire! And all because he played well and WAS ON TV. Now he is very popular and the industry is willing to gamble on him and pay him handsomely.

I am sure that all of you knew that the World Summit and UPA Championship were going to be scheduled again this season because they said so after the last season. And you all knew what months it would be scheduled in. And there are only so many weekends in that month. So if there is a conflict both parties are at fault.

Perhaps it will be best for the UPA and the other tours to go head on and see who the Pros are behind.

I personally believe the pros will go with the chance of being on TV.

And if these UPA events are successful that could be a great shot in the arm for Professional Pool. Or the pro players can go to the DCC where everyone says that is where all the gambling takes place. Just the image pool needs - nothing but gamblers. What a great future. For each winner another player goes home broke. In ring games 5 players lose it all. Not much future there either.

I just can't believe that the TD's couldn't reach Robert Lipson to ensure there were no scheduling conflicts. I'm a nobody in the world of pool and I had a nice conversation with the man a while back and I really do believe that he wants to do what is best for the pros. And he is a businessman and he wants to run a successful business. And yes he wants to make money, for himself and his players. Nothing wrong with that.

Maybe the UPA should contact Donald Trump and propose that his apprentices hold a pool tournament. Twelve UPA pros at one place and twelve at another and see which one can generate the most money. It might give the pool industry some good ideas.

Jake
 
bud green said:
Is it true that UPA players are also given preference for being picked for the Mosconi Cup team? .
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Seems to me that is a benefit of belonging to the UPA.

And they get preference to the WPA too I believe. Another benefit.

And top players get seeded. Another benefit.

Sounds like if you support the UPA they will support you. And the dues to join are only $100 a year. I paid over $300 a year to my union when I was working. And it was either join or don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way otta here. So that sounds like a bargain to me.

It is time Pro Pool players start looking at pool as a job and not just a game. With a job there are responsibilities. Like dues and loyalty and dedication.

Jake
 
kollegedave said:
Jam, I would respectfully disagree with you here. Neither UPA nor Dragon Productions are in any position to negotiate with the DCC. The DCC is the best thing for pool since Efren came to Houston in the eighties. If the UPA wants to conflict with the DCC, then let them. The UPA will lose.
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Kollege Dave, I agree with you. :) The proof is in the pudding, as they say. History repeats itself when it comes to pool in the United States. Sadly, many times greed overcomes the initial good intentions of the powers-that-be. It would seem prudent and advantageous for various entities to work together for the betterment of the sport as opposed to pulling against each other.

JMHO, FWIW! :p

JAM
 
bud green said:
Are ladies actually not allowed to play in the US OPEN? On JAMs' post she said it was open to any male player. Allison, Corr, J. Lee can't play if they want?
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A number of years ago, Barry Behrman signed away the rights for the WPBA to use the "U.S. Open" name for their own women's tournament. In the same agreement, women were exluded from his "U.S. Open", so the answer to your question is, yes, ladies are not allowed to play in the U.S. Open.

BTW, the WPBA U.S. Open is not really an open event. A player has to qualify for that tournament the same as any other WPBA tournament. :confused:
 
Gremlin,

I know what your saying but as far as the 2005 payouts you need to acknowledge that it is only April so there is still quite a bit of earning to go. Not saying many people are getting rich playing pool but the numbers are a little better the closer you get to December.

Regards,
Koop
 
Gremlin said:
VAP,

I don't care about action as you call it. I have made more money in the last eighteen years in legitimate business than you will gambling in three lifetimes. Your sick! If I am ignorant then I am happy as hell that way.

You run your mouth about skills? What skills do you have? If you have a day job you better stick to it. That's my ignorant advise.

Wait till the local District Attorney is running for mayor and he decides he needs some free publicity and puts the DCC Action out of action. :rolleyes:
Then how you going to use those skills cleaning toilets? So tell us all how much money you made on DCC Action :rolleyes:

The subject is the UPA and it has a BCA Mandate so it's not going away. The US OPEN hasn't paid all the money it owes the players from previous events. The DCC could be shut down anytime. Men's pool tours here today gone tomorrow. Have the men's tours got you by your N.U.T.S yet? :p

PS. No one watches pool except the players when they aren't playing golf. :eek:
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Gremlin,
I have been reading your posts lately, and I have formed my opinion.
You are no pool fan. Not quite sure how to categorize you, except as some freaky stalker of women pool players.
DCC is THE premier tournament in pool today.
The US open is THE most coveted title in pool.
Go follow women's tennis and leave pool to the fans.

PS. - watching pool on television is what brought me to the sport.
I assume some snooker playing wretched woman was your first (and only)piece. Maybe that's what brought you to the sport. :confused:
That may explain
 
That's true, DDKoop; below I've listed just the earnings for the women so far this year, taken from the WPBA Web site (updated 4/6/05):

1 Allison Fisher $69300
2 Karen Corr $68200
3 Julie Kelly $36800
4 Jeanette Lee $40600
5 Gerda Hofstatter $33600
6 Monica Webb $29100
7 Vivian Villarreal $27900
8 Kelly Fisher $25850
9 Ga Young Kim $29200
10 Helena Thornfeldt $25100
11 Tiffany Nelson $24350
12 Melissa Herndon $24900

It drops below $20,000 after #12, but that's not bad money and most of these players also have sponsors to help with expenses (and there are five more events this year). I know it's a tough way to make a living even with sponsors, but it's slowly and surely getting better. Compared to 20 or 30 years ago when first place in women's pro events was, like, $400, we've come a long way, baby!! :)
 
Kerry Impson said:
That's true, DDKoop; below I've listed just the earnings for the women so far this year, taken from the WPBA Web site (updated 4/6/05):...1 Allison Fisher $69300....12 Melissa Herndon $24900...
Compared to 20 or 30 years ago when first place in women's pro events was, like, $400, we've come a long way, baby!! :)
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Those are very impressive stats provided by the WPBA website. It's nice to see one of AzBilliards' resident pros' (Melissa Herndon) name in the top 12, too! :)

It is my understanding that one of the bonuses of sanctioning with the men's governing body of professional pool is that the INDEPENDENT promoter(excluding Dragon Promotions) would be GUARANTEED the participation of the UPA Touring Pros.

It must have been very disappointing for the promoter of the Hilton-sponsored NAOT to have such a small turnout attend the first two legs of this tour ($20,000 added to each event), after he agreed to have his first two tournaments sanctioned by the UPA. As a result, the NAOT has turned its back on professional pool and is going to make a go of it with the amateur pool-playing public, and I wish them every success.

The WPBA has a fine product to offer, and it looks to me like they follow through with their commitment: providing top lady players to the independent promoter's events.

Non-participation by members of the men's professional organization is a deterrent for other non-pool-related sponsors to jump on the professional pool band wagon. It is difficult to deliver a product when the product is dwindling. In an ideal world, the UPA could make an effort to create a membership organization which would be attractive to aspiring players and independent promoters (excluding Dragon Promotions) alike. The independent promoters would be happy, the players would be happy, and pool in these United States of America would benefit.

I was very pleased to read the press release by Matchroom Sport to include the U.S. Open champion as a player in the upcoming WPC as opposed to solely relying on the flawed ranking system which used to be the ONLY qualifying criteria for American players. If something doesn't change, I agree with Gremlin that folks should be addressing their concerns to the BCA itself, IMHO.

BTW, gotta say it again, it's GREAT seeing Melissa Herndon's name in the Top 12 of the WPBA! :)

JAM
 
Kerry Impson said:
<snip> I know it's a tough way to make a living even with sponsors, but it's slowly and surely getting better. Compared to 20 or 30 years ago when first place in women's pro events was, like, $400, we've come a long way, baby!! :)
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And the men might, too, IF they could finally come up with some leadership that took a teamwork approach to building something really big together, instead of trying to 'build' by chipping away at their few successful 'competitors'
:confused:
 
1pocket said:
And the men might, too, IF they could finally come up with some leadership that took a teamwork approach to building something really big together, instead of trying to 'build' by chipping away at their few successful 'competitors'....
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That's a mighty big IF, 1pocket! And I not only agree with you 100 percent, but I would like to see it become a reality.

Again, any and all concerns or opinions about the current state of affairs relating to the sanctioning authority in men's professional pool should be addressed to the appropriate source who can EFFECT a change for the better. Billiard Congress of America is the granting entity which gives sanctioning power to an organization in the U.S., just as Gremlin described in an earlier post!

I also agree with Gremlin that paying $100 to become a so-called "professional" a/k/a "touring pro" is not the way most professional membership organizations work in sports. Aspiring players who want to go pro usually have to qualify in order to be classified as a "professional" (IMO).

JAM
 
Kerry Impson said:
That's true, DDKoop; below I've listed just the earnings for the women so far this year, taken from the WPBA Web site (updated 4/6/05):

1 Allison Fisher $69300
2 Karen Corr $68200
3 Julie Kelly $36800
4 Jeanette Lee $40600
5 Gerda Hofstatter $33600
6 Monica Webb $29100
7 Vivian Villarreal $27900
8 Kelly Fisher $25850
9 Ga Young Kim $29200
10 Helena Thornfeldt $25100
11 Tiffany Nelson $24350
12 Melissa Herndon $24900

It drops below $20,000 after #12, but that's not bad money and most of these players also have sponsors to help with expenses (and there are five more events this year). I know it's a tough way to make a living even with sponsors, but it's slowly and surely getting better. Compared to 20 or 30 years ago when first place in women's pro events was, like, $400, we've come a long way, baby!! :)
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Those are not year to date earnings-there have only been 3 tournaments this year and if you won them all you would have earned $30K give or take 4K and no one did that.

Those I'm sure are the earnings that relate to the Rankings which are taken from the LAST 10 tournaments or the last year and one quarter!!Now take away the $500 entry per tournament that everyone must pay- no exceptions and there isnt enough to go around for more than the top 3-4 at best.
 
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Oops! You are both right - those were 10-tournament results. I stand corrected. :(

Nostroke said:
Now take away the $500 entry per tournament that everyone must pay- no exceptions and there isnt enough to go around for more than the top 3-4 at best.
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I doubt very many of these players are paying the entry fee out of their own pockets; most have sponsorships/endorsements which at least cover the entry fee. I figure that if a player's entry fee is paid and she wins only one match, she can break even (hotel room, food, airfare and miscellaneous expenses are probably less than $550, which is payout for 33rd-48th place). Of course, the goal isn't to break even, but most of these players aren't trying to raise a family so I think the "poverty level" term can be misleading.

Year-to-date earnings (Top 20):

1 Allison Fisher $53000
2 Karen Corr $63000
3 Jeanette Lee $41000
4 Julie Kelly $32325
5 Gerda Hofstatter $24200
6 Ga Young Kim $26200
7 Monica Webb $20725
8 Melissa Herndon $20700
9 Vivian Villarreal $18200
10 Jennifer Barretta $16350
11 Helena Thornfeldt $17100
12 Hsin Huang $14450
13 Sarah Ellerby $13800
14 Tiffany Nelson $14250
15 Melissa Little $14050
16 Romana Dokovic $13100
17 Jennifer Chen $14000
18 Sarah Rousey $11725
19 Kim Shaw $12050
20 Jeannie Seaver $10125

(Hey JAM, now it looks even better for the AZB pros!!) ;)
 
Kerry Impson said:
Oops! You are both right - those were 10-tournament results. I stand corrected. :(

I doubt very many of these players are paying the entry fee out of their own pockets; most have sponsorships/endorsements which at least cover the entry fee. I figure that if a player's entry fee is paid and she wins only one match, she can break even (hotel room, food, airfare and miscellaneous expenses are probably less than $550, which is payout for 33rd-48th place). Of course, the goal isn't to break even, but most of these players aren't trying to raise a family so I think the "poverty level" term can be misleading.

Year-to-date earnings (Top 20):

1 Allison Fisher $53000
2 Karen Corr $63000
3 Jeanette Lee $41000
4 Julie Kelly $32325
5 Gerda Hofstatter $24200
6 Ga Young Kim $26200
7 Monica Webb $20725
8 Melissa Herndon $20700
9 Vivian Villarreal $18200
10 Jennifer Barretta $16350
11 Helena Thornfeldt $17100
12 Hsin Huang $14450
13 Sarah Ellerby $13800
14 Tiffany Nelson $14250
15 Melissa Little $14050
16 Romana Dokovic $13100
17 Jennifer Chen $14000
18 Sarah Rousey $11725
19 Kim Shaw $12050
20 Jeannie Seaver $10125

(Hey JAM, now it looks even better for the AZB pros!!) ;)
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I don't know what that is but it isnt YTD either. As i said there have only been 3 tournaments and top prize has been 10K in each. Allison has probably made 22K and Kelly F is probably next with about 17.5

Note that Kelly F isn't even on your list!
 
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Nostroke said:
I don't know what that is but it isnt YTD either. As i said there have only been 3 tournaments and top prize has been 10K in each. Allison has probably made 22K and Kelly F is probably next with about 17.5

Note that Kelly F isn't even on your list!
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Well, you may be right - it sure doesn't seem correct, does it? But I copied it from the WPBA Web site at this link: http://www.wpba.com/cms/?pid=1002945 "Player Year-to-Date Rankings"

Incidentally, Kelly Fisher is ranked #22 on that list with $8350 in prize money.
 
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My understanding of the money listed in the WPBA.com rankings is that it is all money earned in the period of pertinence to the rankings. That would mean the period of time since the tenth most recent WPBA rankings event. I believe the figure would include all money earned in WPBA sanctioned events, meaning money won in WPBA events, WPBA regional tour events, and other fully sanctioned events.

I'm not sure whether money won at the Amway Cup or in the Challenge of Champions would count.
 
In 2005 Allison Fisher won $20,000 and Kelly Fisher won $7500. To see the 2005 payouts go to Mike's home page and look under players.

Jake
 
Kerry Impson said:
Well, you may be right - it sure doesn't seem correct, does it? But I copied it from the WPBA Web site at this link: http://www.wpba.com/cms/?pid=1002945 "Player Year-to-Date Rankings"

Incidentally, Kelly Fisher is ranked #22 on that list with $8350 in prize money.
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I think that the WPBA likes to "act as if" when it comes to how they portray their success. In fact I know it.

No one enjoys the tournaments as much as I but IMHO they continually try to paint a picture that just isn't there. It may be better than it was but it isnt really anywhere yet.

In fact when they had Gordons as a sponsor- weren't there more tournaments and bigger purses for a smaller field? SJM should know the answer to that one.
 
OK now, lets get back to the original premise of this thread. The dates for the DCC and the Bicycle UPA event. In past years, the DCC was held the third full week in the month of January. The Bicycle was held the first full week in January last year and scheduled for that time frame next year. Perhaps someone here should ask Greg Sullivan why he scheduled the DCC on the UPA weekend! I think you have it backwords!!!!! :confused:

By the way, I still think forcing the regional tours to bow to the demands of the UPA is rediculous. I understand the need for one governing body. Holding a gun to the heads of the regional promoters is not going to achieve that result. I ask one simple question. What will the regional tours get in return for a UPA sanction? Think long and hard before you answer!
 
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