What is your average run?

M

mjdoutdoors

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was wondering what most people average run is compaired to your hi run when playing 14.1.
Mostly I hear about is a hi run but this is not representitve of there play as a whole. I am trying to sence of reality in my game. Somone hear said they ran over 50 over 200+ times but only 100 a few, this statement gave me some perspective. My high run is 65 but my average play is around 14-21 with a half a dozen 40s. Everyday i go to the table I expect to beat my high run and fall short and get discouraged. I work hard to push it aside and move on. What is reality for you?
 
I played in a league and we kept track of innings, balls made, safeties, fouls etc. My average for the 15 week league was just over 4 balls per inning, my lowest week being 2.23 bpi and my highest week was 8.7 bpi.
Sure there are lot of partial rack runs as well as multi-rack runs but my average per inning was 4.11 bpi.
I would feel great if I could average 14 - 21 bpi. Maybe some day.

Andy
 
Safeties Included?

Demondrew said:
I played in a league and we kept track of innings, balls made, safeties, fouls etc. My average for the 15 week league was just over 4 balls per inning, my lowest week being 2.23 bpi and my highest week was 8.7 bpi.
Sure there are lot of partial rack runs as well as multi-rack runs but my average per inning was 4.11 bpi.
I would feel great if I could average 14 - 21 bpi. Maybe some day.

Andy
Click to expand...

DemonDrew,

Your average contained all shots made including safeties, correct?

Ron F
 
maybe including safeties is correct, but getting into a couple of extended safety battles could pull your bpi down to less than 1!

would seem to me more meaningful to know non-safety bpi numbers...

some classic old-time players might have a really low bpi otherwise. and even today, for example, the 2011 Martin-Ortmann match at New Brunswick was largely safety play, timewise, and i think it doesn't accurately represent either player to include that in their bpi, however correct it may be technically.

or else a poor safety player or pattern dunce who pockets balls well would come out higher than them, and even in the short term, that just doesn't sound like useful data to me...
 
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Well,

how Ron F said- usualy safeties have to be included to get an *official* average-result.
If you practice-especially when you *start* playing more and more seriously you should anyway pay much more attention on making balls. It makes not really sense to play safeties in training-matches etc. (i m talking about makeable balls- not *hit and hope balls*).
Safeties have to be practiced also-and this repeatable, if you re playing straight-pool competitions- think thats funny how underestimated this is by so many (even strong!!) players.

I saw this so often, that ppl just *choosing* the wrong pattern, the wrong ball or so-just by watchin at their scoresheet...because they re thinkin about their average. Straight pool has to be played like rotation-games. You make balls continuesly (the plan, lol) or you stay out controlled-that s it. And so it is from my point of view the right way to include the safeties to get the average/result from a match.

The highest average i ever made a over a complete straight-pool season was 8,33 (team league, 28 games by loosing 4 games) and i was ranked 5th with it. The first 3 places were between 10 and 15 average. The ranking just was result just from average. The 4th and 3rd lost more matches than me, and i beaten all who were ranked above me-but lost to other guys^^- so finally there are guys who are then discuss *who s better* ?! If it s about teamleague i really give *s..t* on my average (better said i gave:P)-for the team i just want to win, no matter how.

That s why straight pool is still the best trainings game you can practice- because you see clearly the results on a sheet- and measurable results are a must have for structured practice and if you want to really increase.

Sry if i drifted off a bit from topic perhaps :-)

lg
Ingo
 
mjdoutdoors said:
I was wondering what most people average run is compaired to your hi run when playing 14.1.
Mostly I hear about is a hi run but this is not representitve of there play as a whole. I am trying to sence of reality in my game. Somone hear said they ran over 50 over 200+ times but only 100 a few, this statement gave me some perspective. My high run is 65 but my average play is around 14-21 with a half a dozen 40s. Everyday i go to the table I expect to beat my high run and fall short and get discouraged. I work hard to push it aside and move on. What is reality for you?
Click to expand...

You sound like you're talking about average runs, not balls per inning.
 
I'm not sure people keep track of average runs. I think balls per inning is kept more often.
 
I guess if we are talking about average runs and not BPI then we have to establish just what a run is. Is it having a transition ball from one rack to the next? More than five balls, ten maybe or is it when you get to the fifteenth ball?

When we kept track of innings and safety play if all you did in an inning was foul or play safe the inning did not count. If you pocketed a ball or many balls and then missed fouled or played safe the inning counted. There are times when that can reduce your BPI by playing a couple of balls and then playing safe (I do that alot).

So I guess we need to define what a run is, for the purpose of this discussion.

Andy
 
During the finals of a recent 14.1 league that I run, I won the match & league championship with nothing more than an average a touch under 10 balls per inning (something like 2-3 safeties included).

By way of comparison, my high run in that match was only something like 2 racks, can't remember exactly. My high run of that entire league session was 45-ish. My all-time high run in leagues is 91.
 
In our league system here in Germany, we track the high run per match and the avarage balls per inning, but we count every inning, no matter if there was a missed ball, safety of a good run...
Since we play short races in the lower leagues (50 in the lowest, 60 in my current league), there is a lot of safety play, players that pot obvious breakballs instead of building their break towards these balls and so on...

My average run this season is 1.92 balls, with a high run of just 12 balls...
In my best match so far I had an avarage of 4.55 balls and a high run of 21...

In training matches I had a high run of 34 and quiete a few 25s-29s... My best avarage this way was 8.78, in a race to 125... problem was, that the other guy needed only 9 innings for that... he finished the game with a 81...



But you have to see, that if you talk about avarage runs this way, you have many "runs" of 1-3 balls, where you have to stop with a safe, or risk a hard ball, which is in a short race just deadly...
 
I rarely get 14.1 competition. During my daily routine I practice for high runs with no safeties, with a goal to pocket 200 balls per session. 8 out of 10 times I get through the rack and some of the next or or get stuck at the break. It seems I get lots of runs around 11-21, some 40s and a couple 50s and a high run of 65. This is purly observational. What are normal runs for most of you?
 
Bob Jewett has commented on this subject before and made a very interesting and insightful observation. To paraphrase, if you took ball in hand on a break shot of your choice and ran until you missed (one attempt) and did this 10 times... if your average is 20 or above, you play 14.1 at a professional/world caliber level.

While it doesn't sound difficult to average 20 balls over 10 attempts from ball in hand, it's actually extremely difficult. To the OP, do not fret about your average run.

Hard work always pays off, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.

Ray
 
Demondrew said:
I played in a league and we kept track of innings, balls made, safeties, fouls etc. My average for the 15 week league was just over 4 balls per inning, my lowest week being 2.23 bpi and my highest week was 8.7 bpi.
Sure there are lot of partial rack runs as well as multi-rack runs but my average per inning was 4.11 bpi.
I would feel great if I could average 14 - 21 bpi. Maybe some day.

Andy
Click to expand...

Andy: not a bad average per inning. The new ipad app biliards buddy tracks this stat. I noticed I am usually around 3 something. 4 means I am playing fairly well for me. I remember I had a 7 something one game but got beat by Jeff Mohl.

I know that too many safeties skew the results, but that is the way it has always been.
 
I last kept stats in my teens/early twenties, thus am not able to answer this. Unfortunately, our tournament directors rarely keep stats, but exceptionally, Rico did for the qualifier for the Nationals on April 2nd last year, and posted them on their web site. Those were short races to 75, and my grand average for the tournament (all the games divided by innings total, i.e. opening breaks, safeties etc. all included) was 10.35 even though I apparently never ran more than a 55. Sorry, the only number I could find/have got at hand, not sure this helps…?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
mjdoutdoors said:
I was wondering what most people average run is compaired to your hi run when playing 14.1.
Mostly I hear about is a hi run but this is not representitve of there play as a whole. I am trying to sence of reality in my game. Somone hear said they ran over 50 over 200+ times but only 100 a few, this statement gave me some perspective. My high run is 65 but my average play is around 14-21 with a half a dozen 40s. Everyday i go to the table I expect to beat my high run and fall short and get discouraged. I work hard to push it aside and move on. What is reality for you?
Click to expand...

BigCat said:
Bob Jewett has commented on this subject before and made a very interesting and insightful observation. To paraphrase, if you took ball in hand on a break shot of your choice and ran until you missed (one attempt) and did this 10 times... if your average is 20 or above, you play 14.1 at a professional/world caliber level.

While it doesn't sound difficult to average 20 balls over 10 attempts from ball in hand, it's actually extremely difficult. To the OP, do not fret about your average run.

Hard work always pays off, even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.

Ray
Click to expand...

It sounds like when the OP says his average is 14-21, he is not talking about balls per inning, but rather using a break ball and practicing 14.1. I believe with this definition, Ray (quoted above) has the right idea.

If you were to set up a break ball with BIH and run 10 attempts with each attempt ending on your first miss, what is your average run for the 10? I think this would be very indicative of skill level over the long run.

It is essentially like playing the ghost in rotation. I would be interested to know what the high, average, and median run are for people. The average could be greatly skewed if you ran less than 5 once or twice. I think the median would give you a pretty good idea of what your skill level is.

For example, if you ran 5,6,8,12,14,14,20,29,30,40 - Your high would be 40, average 14.8, and median is 14. In this case they are both similar.

Curious on others thoughts

-Brandon
 
I just ran 10 innings with a break ball and BIH. My results suck. I have just recently started getting into 14.1 heavy. I need to put some time in and play better patterns. Right now my high run is 47. Here are my results for 10 innings today:

10, 7, 2, 26, 8, 14, 6, 4, 16, 8

My high was 26 - Only got out the first rack twice (missed a good break ball and was stuck on 14 for another)

My average was 10.1

The median was 8, probably closer to actual skill since the 26 raised the average.
 
Gave the 10 innings a try:

14 scratch.
13
59
13
30
24
29
11
15 missed rack
15 stuck in rack

-Bill
 
excel tells me Bill's median was 15, and his average was 22.3.

no disrespect to Brandon, who probably knows more about stats than i do, but somehow i think the 22.3 is a more accurate measure of how tough an opponent Bill would be (it would not end well for me!).

i like this test, may run it tonight if i can remember.
 
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Marop said:
Gave the 10 innings a try:

14 scratch.
13
59
13
30
24
29
11
15 missed rack
15 stuck in rack

-Bill
Click to expand...

Very nice numbers Bill! You are definitely in that elite category... especially when it comes to consistency.

I also agree the average is more important than the median. Median can be very misleading when there are outliers in a series.

Ray
 
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