What is your DEFINITION of a Custom Cue?

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Thought I would ask the question, as I think there are two type of cues. Custom & Production.

Where the question get confusing, is take a Builder like Gina, McWorter, and other builders who build certain models over and over again.

To me the above mentioned Builders build a Custom Cue, as it is not MASS Produced, it is Build by a Builder,and many an Assistant or Two.

Also each Cue I think is built to a higher standard of Quality Control, plus the Customers has choices of Tips, Wraps, Shaft Taper, and other OPTIONS.

When I think of Production Cues names like Falcon, CueTec, Meucci,, McDermott, lucasi, and others come to mind.

Like I said I think it would be interesting to see what others fell is a Truce Custom Cue...

 

[Shorty]

I will take heat for this....but I consider my Schon custom. I shoot with a non-Schon shaft, and I have custom extensions for it made, including modifying the weight bolt and butt bumper to be removable. I am hoping to one day have a leather wrap put on it as well.

To me, numbers do not matter, as far as how many were made. To me a custom cue is one that you taylor or is taylored more for you.

Is a 1 of a kind Szamboti custom? Sure. Is a McDermott you had made with a 30" butt, specified weight, and a leather wrap a custom? Sure. Really a maker makes no difference.

Just my .02,
Shorty

 

[zeeder]

Custom cue: cue ordered by a customer from the maker.
Production cue: cue manufacturer produced multiple copies of the same cue for sale.
Spec cue: cue maker makes a cue to his specifications for later sale.
Limited production cue: Same as production but made in much smaller numbers.

Production cue manufacturers could make customs or spec cues just the same as custom cue makers could make limited production or production cues. However, it would be hard for a one or two man shop to put out enough of a cue to be considered production and still do the custom work I would think. That's my take on it anyhow.

 

[zeeder]

I will take heat for this....but I consider my Schon custom. I shoot with a non-Schon shaft, and I have custom extensions for it made, including modifying the weight bolt and butt bumper to be removable. I am hoping to one day have a leather wrap put on it as well.

To me, numbers do not matter, as far as how many were made. To me a custom cue is one that you taylor or is taylored more for you.

Is a 1 of a kind Szamboti custom? Sure. Is a McDermott you had made with a 30" butt, specified weight, and a leather wrap a custom? Sure. Really a maker makes no difference.

Just my .02,
Shorty

Shorty, this is by no means heat, but what you have is a customized cue. If you take a stock production cue and alter it that is customization. If you order a unique design from Schon or McDermott then it's a custom, IMHO.

Edit: I think you have to change the design of the cue for it to be custom, not just the specifications. Otherwise, your simply customizing the cue. It's all semantics though...lol.

 

[Michael-Hoang]

Thought I would ask the question, as I think there are two type of cues. Custom & Production.

Bruce, this is an interesting question that does not have a definitive answer to it, if we go by the strict, generally accepted definition of the words "custom" and "production". For every one good answer that attempts to show one way, there is another equally good answer that shows the other way.

Where the question get confusing, is take a Builder like Gina, McWorter, and other builders who build certain models over and over again.
To me the above mentioned Builders build a Custom Cue, as it is not MASS Produced, it is Build by a Builder,and many an Assistant or Two.

As you said yourself above, this is where the definition of "custom" versus "production" gets muddy. For me personally, I *just* accept that the above cuemakers that you mentioned as well as several others are "custom" cuemakers and big companies are "production" cues.

Also each Cue I think is built to a higher standard of Quality Control, plus the Customers has choices of Tips, Wraps, Shaft Taper, and other OPTIONS.

If someone wants a choice of tips, wraps, shaft taper, etc..., they *can* get them from "production" cue companies. They just have to *pay* a lot more. But generally, most people are not willing to pay more for the same design. For example, a person can get whatever options they want in a Joss cue, but are they willing to pay for a much higher price for the same looking cue that their buddies have?

When I think of Production Cues names like Falcon, CueTec, Meucci,, McDermott, lucasi, and others come to mind.
Like I said I think it would be interesting to see what others fell is a Truce Custom Cue...

Personally for me, I do not have a certain requirements that someone has to meet to be consider "custom" or "production". I just look at the overall picture of their operation, and decide on it based on my opinion.

 

[Fred Agnir]

Thought I would ask the question, as I think there are two type of cues. Custom & Production.

This question, like so many others, comes up every few months. Maybe once a year.

IMO, manufacturers and those in manufacturing should give an answer, and everyone else should just listen. I think that's fair. They are manufacturing terms, and therefore the standard definitions understood in manufacturing should be all that is necessary.

That being said, I've been a manufacturing engineer for... 15 years? Here's a hint at the true answer:

Custom is not the opposite of Production in any way, shape, or form in any manufacturing field.

Fred

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

That being said, I've been a manufacturing engineer for... 15 years? Here's a hint at the true answer:

Custom is not the opposite of Production in any way, shape, or form in any manufacturing field.

Fred

Now I am confused kind of....

 

[OldHasBeen]

(IMHO) - A Custom Cue Is............

(IMHO) - A Custom Cue Is one that you call a cue maker and tell him the specs & design you want. He tells you the cost and delivery time.

At least that is the way it was way back when - with cue makers like George, Gus (pre-Atalntic City Casinos), & Danny Janes.

If you can call a cue maker and have him ship you 100 cues - They are NOT Custom Cues.

If there is a cue maker selling 50 to 500 cues laid out on a table - They are Not Custom Cues.

Remember - I am an OldHasBeen and I can only say the way it used to be.
I have no knowledge OR interest in THE WAY IT IS NOW.

AND ALL OF THE ABOVE IS JUST - (IMHO).

TY & GL

 

[Michael-Hoang]

(IMHO) - A Custom Cue Is one that you call a cue maker and tell him the specs & design you want. He tells you the cost and delivery time.
At least that is the way it was way back when - with cue makers like George, Gus (pre-Atalntic City Casinos), & Danny Janes.
If you can call a cue maker and have him ship you 100 cues - They are NOT Custom Cues.
If there is a cue maker selling 50 to 500 cues laid out on a table - They are Not Custom Cues.
Remember - I am an OldHasBeen and I can only say the way it used to be.
I have no knowledge OR interest in THE WAY IT IS NOW.
AND ALL OF THE ABOVE IS JUST - (IMHO).
TY & GL

This is true, if it is about the "cue" itself. But if I understand correctly, the poster's question is about the "cuemakers" (or cue brands). Just because George, Tad, Ernie, Gus, etc... made/make more than one "design" of a cue *does not* mean they are "production" cuemakers. I think everyone would agree that these guys are "custom" cuemakers. Likewise, just because a big cue company make a one of a kind cue does not mean that they are "custom" cuemakers. Therefore, there is not a definitive answer to whether someone is a "custom" cuemaker or "production" cuemaker.

It is all in our personal opinion.

 

[GeraldG]

It has been pointed out that custom is not the opposite of production. That's true....in fact, how could it possibly be? They are both cues, so they can't be opposites. It's like saying that an apple is not the opposite of an orange. The fact is that a cue doesn't have an opposite. A custom cue and a production cue are different in their creation and origin, but they are still both cues.

However, what IS true in (IMO) is that a production cue cannot be a custom cue. You can customize a production cue, but that does not make it a custom cue. It makes it a customized production cue.

If you present a drawing to a cuemaker and say "This is what I want, build it." THEN you will have a custom cue. It was custom built to your specifications.

I guess I'm probably not qualified in the eyes of some of the exalted members here to have or express an opinion on this matter....I've noticed in a couple of threads here that the serfdom of this forum have been instructed not to express opinions on certain subjects...even though the subject has been presented in the forum. I always thought that opened the subject for comment....oh, well...I'll take the heat for it.

One note about having an actual custom cue built....you had better put it up in here somewhere first so the Cue Design Police can approve your design before construction begins. If you do something like design a cue with Ivory diamond inlays, snowflake diamond inlays, 6 points, 4 points, 4 veneers, 5 veneers, ferrules, a butt, irish linen wrap, leather wrap, no wrap, shafts, joints, joint rings....or any number of design elements that have already been used by a cuemaker, you will be guilty of cue design theft, sentenced to death and will go immediately to hell.

 

[OldHasBeen]

No need to explain.

pre-atlantic city casinos???

please explain what you mean

If you didn't know Gus, It makes no difference.
If you did, It needs no explaination.

Bottom Line - Gus was a hellava Custom Cue Maker - That made many GREAT "CUSTOM CUES".

TY & GL

 

[zeeder]

This is true, if it is about the "cue" itself. But if I understand correctly, the poster's question is about the "cuemakers" (or cue brands). Just because George, Tad, Ernie, Gus, etc... made/make more than one "design" of a cue *does not* mean they are "production" cuemakers. I think everyone would agree that these guys are "custom" cuemakers. Likewise, just because a big cue company make a one of a kind cue does not mean that they are "custom" cuemakers. Therefore, there is not a definitive answer to whether someone is a "custom" cuemaker or "production" cuemaker.

It is all in our personal opinion.

Actually, the title of the thread is, "What is your DEFINITION of a Custom cue? This means that he's not asking what defines a custom cue maker...lol.

 

[Fred Agnir]

It has been pointed out that custom is not the opposite of production. That's true....in fact, how could it possibly be? They are both cues, so they can't be opposites.

I though you were talking about the words custom vs. production. Throwing the word cue in the mix only confuses people.

However, what IS true in (IMO) is that a production cue cannot be a custom cue.

Nothing in the manufacturing world suggests this. The words are not mutually exclusive.

I gave this example in the past. I ordered 1,000 custom temporary tattoos. It wasn't their design. It was mine. The order was custom. It wasn't off the shelf. It was completely under my design. They produced (yes, that's "production") my custom order. I've ordered these custom tattoos every year for the past several years. It's now in their system, though nobody can order them but me. Every year, it's a production of custom tattoos.

There are home builders all across the U.S. that build "custom homes," even though every home is similar or exactly the same. But, they are still "custom," even though there may not be a specific customer in mind. They are built on speculation.

Every field of commercial manufacturing has a decent understanding of the terms custom and production. The only people that I come across that don't understand the terms are pool players. That's the truth.

"Custom," though defined in Webster's has the customer and customer's intentions in mind, it has come to mean in manufacturing "not built upon a standard" or "not of the standard line." It does NOT mean "opposite of mass production." Consider the cars or motorcycle that manufacturers put "Custom" in front of. It is absolutely proper for them to do this. For pool cues, the original "standard" was a one piece house cue. That's why today, any two-piece cue can properly called "custom cue."

IMO, if people want to differentiate, then use real terms like customized, customer-specified, or one off (one-of-a-kind). Custom doesn't mean what you guys think or want to think it means.

You can all disagree, but unless you are manufacturers and have different experience, then it's a tough opinion to back up.

Fred

 

[Fred Agnir]

Now I am confused kind of....

Well, read my other post. The terms are not opposites. They're not mutually exclusive. I'm trying to educate people based on manufacturing norms, as opposed to "I'm a pool player and I'm going to just guess at terms that have been used for 100 years."

My answer should answer all those "Why do the mass produced cue makers say that their cues are custom" questions. Answer: because it's proper, from a manufacturing standpoint.

Fred

 

[zeeder]

IMO, if people want to differentiate, then use real terms like customized, customer-specified, or one off (one-of-a-kind). Custom doesn't mean what you guys think or want to think it means.

Fred

My "definition" of custom cues fits the definition as given by Mr. Webster!

 

[bruin70]

a cue made EXACTLY to your specs and design is a custom cue.................THIS IS NOT, however, my definition of a custom cue MAKER, because anyone can fulfill the above requirement.

 

[tom haney]

I agree with everybody. The problem is sometimes with the cue
makers. Jacoby makes a custom cue and a production cue.
The one they call Jacoby Custom Cues are their production
cues. Confusing? Also, Quest and many others call their cues
custom cues. I guess they think it helps sell their cues but
it certainly muddles the issue, especially if you're bidding
for cues on EBAY.

 

[Jersey]

Custom???

This is now, and always a confusing question??? Fred gives the most 'Pure' answer to this question. You can design and set all the specifications you want, but at the point you hand those specs to a Craftsman it his job to 'Produce' it, hence in 'Pure' Engineering and Manufacturing terms it is once it's 'Produced' it is a 'Production' piece.

Produce: make or manufacture from components or raw materials

Custom: made or done to order for a specific customer


my 2c-

 

[bruin70]

I agree with everybody. The problem is sometimes with the cue
makers. Jacoby makes a custom cue and a production cue.
The one they call Jacoby Custom Cues are their production
cues. Confusing? Also, Quest and many others call their cues
custom cues. I guess they think it helps sell their cues but
it certainly muddles the issue, especially if you're bidding
for cues on EBAY.

it only muddies the issue if people don't take the time to research,,,which they should be doing if they intend to spend their money wisely.

 

[GeraldG]

I though you were talking about the words custom vs. production. Throwing the word cue in the mix only confuses people.



Nothing in the manufacturing world suggests this. The words are not mutually exclusive.

I gave this example in the past. I ordered 1,000 custom temporary tattoos. It wasn't their design. It was mine. The order was custom. It wasn't off the shelf. It was completely under my design. They produced (yes, that's "production") my custom order. I've ordered these custom tattoos every year for the past several years. It's now in their system, though nobody can order them but me. Every year, it's a production of custom tattoos.

There are home builders all across the U.S. that build "custom homes," even though every home is similar or exactly the same. But, they are still "custom," even though there may not be a specific customer in mind. They are built on speculation.

Every field of commercial manufacturing has a decent understanding of the terms custom and production. The only people that I come across that don't understand the terms are pool players. That's the truth.

"Custom," though defined in Webster's has the customer and customer's intentions in mind, it has come to mean in manufacturing "not built upon a standard" or "not of the standard line." It does NOT mean "opposite of mass production." Consider the cars or motorcycle that manufacturers put "Custom" in front of. It is absolutely proper for them to do this. For pool cues, the original "standard" was a one piece house cue. That's why today, any two-piece cue can properly called "custom cue."

IMO, if people want to differentiate, then use real terms like customized, customer-specified, or one off (one-of-a-kind). Custom doesn't mean what you guys think or want to think it means.

You can all disagree, but unless you are manufacturers and have different experience, then it's a tough opinion to back up.

Fred

OK. Now I get where you're coming from. Yes, you are correct in your tattoo example. Those are custom tattoos produced only for you, but they are pruduced in "production runs". They are not available to any other buyers.

Those tattoos are custom to YOU and your business, but when the kid buys them, he's just buying a temporary tattoo that anyone can buy. So, by the same token, a cue distributor could order a quantity of identical cues from a cuemaker and if they are built to the cue distributor's design and not available to other cue distributors, then he can market them as "custom cues" because they were made to his specifications.....even though anyone can walk in and buy one identical to the next one.

Seems cheap to me, but whatever. I guess I'll have to start using the term "One-off Custom Cue" or "One-of-a-kind Custom Cue".

So..there's only one by a particular cuemaker it's a "One-of-a-kind Custom". If there were a limited number of them it's a "Limited Production Cue". If there were lots of them made then it's a "General availability Production Cue".

Sure was easier when they were Custom Cues and Production Cues.