What is your Great Idea to Create more Pool Players
- Thread starter 336Robin
- Start date
Grand Tour Promo
I havent read the section on how to earn tickets on your website yet.....so just know that.....but its not readily apparent to me why I would want to do this......so I wonder if it would fly by someone else as well.....Im not being critical....I appreciate the fact that you are doing something and I hope it works I really do.....Ive had a lot of ideas that sounded nice but didnt work out.....would you mind trying to explain why I would want to buy a ticket for someone else to play?........convince me maybe I will buy some tickets.....are we talking about putting a pro up against someone? or some local? Those are some pretty high payouts considering and how much are tickets.....and do you record the matches and send em out or something....
Just another lovely day in paradise.......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
I havent read the section on how to earn tickets on your website yet.....so just know that.....but its not readily apparent to me why I would want to do this......so I wonder if it would fly by someone else as well.....Im not being critical....I appreciate the fact that you are doing something and I hope it works I really do.....Ive had a lot of ideas that sounded nice but didnt work out.....would you mind trying to explain why I would want to buy a ticket for someone else to play?........convince me maybe I will buy some tickets.....are we talking about putting a pro up against someone? or some local? Those are some pretty high payouts considering and how much are tickets.....and do you record the matches and send em out or something....
Just another lovely day in paradise.......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
I'm of the opposite view about the role schools and city recreation departments can have on growing pool. The biggest reason is long term exposure of a sport to a wide range of people.
The town where I grew up had no pool rooms, and still doesn't. No one in my family played pool or even had a table. I got my first experience with pool because of the city rec department.
Below is the flyer from my town. After reading some of the activities offered, ask yourself why not billiards? Imagine the impact offering billiards would have long term.
http://www.ci.milpitas.ca.gov/_pdfs/rec_activity_guide.pdf
Disclaimer: I read 4 pages of what seemed to be a repeating theme and skipped to the end to reply 
RandyG has it right. If a person gets bit by "improved performance" they will soon turn into one of us. As one of us they will be more likely promote the game to their children. In a few generations things start to really take off....or should I say recover. Obviously pool has lost ground in recent history but it is by no means lost.
Keep helping the weaker players around you and time will turn the tide back in our favor.
Ken
RandyG has it right. If a person gets bit by "improved performance" they will soon turn into one of us. As one of us they will be more likely promote the game to their children. In a few generations things start to really take off....or should I say recover. Obviously pool has lost ground in recent history but it is by no means lost.
Keep helping the weaker players around you and time will turn the tide back in our favor.
Ken
BUMP for this 30 minute interview of Jim's city team idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ju48ysC68
Here it is in a shorter, 4 minute fictional version of the idea from Jim's kickass tv series, Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ju48ysC68
BUMP
Jeff Livingston
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ju48ysC68
Here it is in a shorter, 4 minute fictional version of the idea from Jim's kickass tv series, Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ju48ysC68
BUMP
Jeff Livingston
Impact?
Has anyone ever submitted a program proposal to the Department for establishing a pool program?
With a population in excess of 50,000 there is certainly enough of a demographic to cover pool in every category.
In regards to growing the sport without a dedicated effort towards youth programs, I would say the development of youth soccer alone in the last 25 years, is proof enough. Soccer fails at the adult level due to lack of adult soccer clubs, like in Germany. Here, the adult pool possibilities are easily available, but access for young people, not.
I have experience in virtually every category within the Billiard Industry. Having created programs for Military Recreation Centers, Summer Youth Camps, Charity Events, and Pool League Operations.
I base my opinions on research. It is one of the reasons I like what is being looked at here. There is a new dedicated effort to reach the youth market. People with fresh enthusiasm and ideas.
The demographic for elementary to high school numbers almost 50 million.
Reaching the kids is important for the future of pool. Old guys like us, as participants, are not the future. It's what we can give that will make the difference.
You say, you had exposure initially at a city recreation center. Where? If not Milpitas, it must have been somewhere. While Milpitas has an impressive offering of recreational outlets, I didn't see pool offered at any of the 3 locations. Why not?
Has anyone ever submitted a program proposal to the Department for establishing a pool program?
With a population in excess of 50,000 there is certainly enough of a demographic to cover pool in every category.
In regards to growing the sport without a dedicated effort towards youth programs, I would say the development of youth soccer alone in the last 25 years, is proof enough. Soccer fails at the adult level due to lack of adult soccer clubs, like in Germany. Here, the adult pool possibilities are easily available, but access for young people, not.
I have experience in virtually every category within the Billiard Industry. Having created programs for Military Recreation Centers, Summer Youth Camps, Charity Events, and Pool League Operations.
I base my opinions on research. It is one of the reasons I like what is being looked at here. There is a new dedicated effort to reach the youth market. People with fresh enthusiasm and ideas.
The demographic for elementary to high school numbers almost 50 million.
Reaching the kids is important for the future of pool. Old guys like us, as participants, are not the future. It's what we can give that will make the difference.
Excellent idea
Great analysis but I'm too long in the tooth to see it happen.
Great analysis but I'm too long in the tooth to see it happen.
Disclaimer: I read 4 pages of what seemed to be a repeating theme and skipped to the end to reply
RandyG has it right. If a person gets bit by "improved performance" they will soon turn into one of us. As one of us they will be more likely promote the game to their children. In a few generations things start to really take off....or should I say recover. Obviously pool has lost ground in recent history but it is by no means lost.
Keep helping the weaker players around you and time will turn the tide back in our favor.
Ken
Sustainable Growth
The Kidd,
I understand what youre saying about being long in the tooth and thinking you would never see it happen but...Im not a spring chicken by any means but Im definitely not over the hill and I do believe that a proper plan if there are some solid foundations for what is being done in different demographic areas of the sport simultaneously, could turn pool around at least where activity levels are rising in 5yrs.....and truthfully maybe less....but the problem I see is not it could not be done...because I think it can....its finding the people who want to do it that have the means necessary to do it.
We all have our own self interests that we have to look at and its hard to put those aside to do something collectively however the right people together could make it happen, the key is whatever you do is do nothing that is not sustainable, repeatable and long lasting.
Just another lovely day in paradise......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
The Kidd,
I understand what youre saying about being long in the tooth and thinking you would never see it happen but...Im not a spring chicken by any means but Im definitely not over the hill and I do believe that a proper plan if there are some solid foundations for what is being done in different demographic areas of the sport simultaneously, could turn pool around at least where activity levels are rising in 5yrs.....and truthfully maybe less....but the problem I see is not it could not be done...because I think it can....its finding the people who want to do it that have the means necessary to do it.
We all have our own self interests that we have to look at and its hard to put those aside to do something collectively however the right people together could make it happen, the key is whatever you do is do nothing that is not sustainable, repeatable and long lasting.
Just another lovely day in paradise......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
First of all, thank you for the support, Robin.
To answer your question, if you were hoping to play in one of our events, you wouldn't need to purchase a ticket, although some distributors will sell them in limited quantities.
More likely you would earn a ticket, or more, from the many sponsors who have bought them as a means of rewarding pool players. I encourage you to visit the page again which describes how this works in more detail. (see link)
https://sites.google.com/site/grandtourpromotions/100-ways-to-earn-a-ticket
The sponsors in turn have purchased the tickets from Grand Tour Promotions as a means of marketing themselves as a venue, league, tour director, instructor, cue service, etc. that gives back to their players.
And yes, the entire tournaments, shot for shot, will be both recorded and streamed live, so all the lucky players' friends and family can enjoy watching them compete for the title of GRAND Tour Champion.
The stakes will make it exciting, and because they are likely to be players of average skill competing, the results won't often be predictable.
I hope this helps clear that up. If you have any more comments/questions, please post again. I'm more than happy to reply in this thread.
Expect more soon,
Robert Bowman
President, Grand Tour Promotions
https://sites.google.com/site/grandtourpromotions/
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Thanks for the kind words, EagleMan.
We can't take credit for rewards programs, as they've been around for a long time. Although we think what we've created may be the beginnings of a proper rewards program for the pool community.
We hope to bring The GRAND Tour to life soon and show everyone what can be expected from us in the future. Until then...
Expect more soon,
Robert Bowman
President, Grand Tour Promotions
https://sites.google.com/site/grandtourpromotions/
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Back in the late 60's is when I first experienced pool and that was in my towns rec center. Back then , there were no pool rooms anywhere close. And as stated, no one I knew had a table or played.
So, I would ride my bicycle to the rec center to play pool. This is where I fell in love with the game. So much so, that some 40 years later, I returned to playing again.
I disagree about not being a apart of the future of pool. The future of pool is not dependent on anyone age group. Pool is a great equilizer.
I do not want to discount any source of getting new players in the game, young or old, and through the city's rec dept is one way.
Btw, the town I grew up in no longers has pool tables in the rec centers. So, there is no where for kids to go to experience pool like I did in the same town.
Recreation Centers
Duckie,
When I was growing up Recreation Centers were all over and thats where I learned to play or rather compete. The kids I played with were really competitive and one kid coming over to their place had to be challenged. So there was a lot to it when you went to a new place to play and I like it.
In the south about all of the little towns of any size at one time had a pool room. I had a vision to return all of those pool room as a sort of rec center type of environment and put it uptown where a lot of empty stores were because it seems the strip malls are taking the uptowns out of the picture. This might bring back some of the rec center type business, but it would just have to work right and that is this......It couldnt be an enterprise where its designed as a part of a lets get rich kind of business.....because its a low margin business...I would want it run by retired people only.....no one who has to have a job to survive needs to be running it....so if someone caused some problems.....well just close it up for the rest of the day.....My idea was have a whole bunch of retired people who ran it and there would be a schedule and cater to the retired crowd because they need a place to gather and also......Kids.......Make it cheap enough that kids could play pool, maybe have a few other games as well and have a place where they could sit down at a desk to do homework etc. I also wanted to get the Military Recruiters involved and let them put up their posters, trade schools, community colleges and any other program so these kids might get the idea that they might actually find a place in the world.....So this is one of my vision of how you put pool rooms back into all of the small towns and raise the consciousness of pool, sure you could do tournaments but if you do....you make them dress decent, act like the had sense and respect the game. Your senoirs would be there as role models. I see this as a way to get other entities to help pay for the low margin business of pool because you are targeting at risk kids.
Just another lovely day in paradise.......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Duckie,
When I was growing up Recreation Centers were all over and thats where I learned to play or rather compete. The kids I played with were really competitive and one kid coming over to their place had to be challenged. So there was a lot to it when you went to a new place to play and I like it.
In the south about all of the little towns of any size at one time had a pool room. I had a vision to return all of those pool room as a sort of rec center type of environment and put it uptown where a lot of empty stores were because it seems the strip malls are taking the uptowns out of the picture. This might bring back some of the rec center type business, but it would just have to work right and that is this......It couldnt be an enterprise where its designed as a part of a lets get rich kind of business.....because its a low margin business...I would want it run by retired people only.....no one who has to have a job to survive needs to be running it....so if someone caused some problems.....well just close it up for the rest of the day.....My idea was have a whole bunch of retired people who ran it and there would be a schedule and cater to the retired crowd because they need a place to gather and also......Kids.......Make it cheap enough that kids could play pool, maybe have a few other games as well and have a place where they could sit down at a desk to do homework etc. I also wanted to get the Military Recruiters involved and let them put up their posters, trade schools, community colleges and any other program so these kids might get the idea that they might actually find a place in the world.....So this is one of my vision of how you put pool rooms back into all of the small towns and raise the consciousness of pool, sure you could do tournaments but if you do....you make them dress decent, act like the had sense and respect the game. Your senoirs would be there as role models. I see this as a way to get other entities to help pay for the low margin business of pool because you are targeting at risk kids.
Just another lovely day in paradise.......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
I think they're plenty of pool players out there. The problem is they get run off by other players.. this sport has a clickish element to it, i find myself having to prove on a daily basis that I belong. For instance i do not play snooker and the guys who do dismiss me as a true player,i also do not know anything about custom cue makers. Their are several different aspects to pool that make it wonderful. but in my opinion if we want more players to join our group we are going to have to tolerate les informed players. at least we got to give them time to grow. And all u so called money players quit picking on the average player we want to see u match up with each other. I cant count how many times I have seen a player bark at a guy that is not even close to the same level until the guy caves and loses and disapears for months and yet the same guy will duck me. Lol plus its frowned apon knocking someone's action. I play by the code and it took me a long time to become the player that I am today. but if you want new pool players something's gotta change these guys today got other places in other things they can do. I used to think That APA was good for pool but they are the biggest clicks of them all. Az billiards is a great way to bring new players up to speed faster
The Clicks of Pool/Education
:thumbup:
LastDimeTaker,
I have to agree with you that where there is a click it makes it harder to become accpepted and thats a shame. I went by the pool room last night...took a day off and just wanted to hit a few and it was league night....lots of people in there playing, drinking and socializing...which is a good thing..this was a house league managed by the house. League players of any kind dont tend to do a lot business at other times but some of them do and this particular league system tends to get folks whose interest is having a nite out to play and it brings in some "Real" players who are truly interested in learning the sport.
We can discuss things all day but in the end someone has to come up with some money to justify the effort spend on it.
I think and education program that were designed to be handed to the room owners to help them deal with new players might be a good thing. This would provide a packet of information for a new player and possibly this could include instructional information, discounts for pool time to bring him into the fold so to speak where he has some time to work on some skills and lets him enjoy his new found sport. What typically happens is interested parties get handed off to the pool league system and then the establishment sells them a beer or a soda if they have food maybe some of that. A lot of rooms who dont have a kitchen come up hurting in that situation.
Ive never understood why room owners havent come up with a way to provide education to players, instruction to players and then provide competition to player at a very local level.....maybe not advertise the small competitive events and keep that just for their people....so its more of a this is for my people kind of thing.......Their is a missing piece in this puzzle of education and intent and that is the.......... instructor......If billiard instruction costs out the wazoo then that doesnt help the sport...Surely everyone needs to get paid and sadly the country and the world is having problems with all of that.
No one including Instructors can afford to take their time up giving free lessons. Especially when it costs close to $1000 dollars to get the first level of certification and there are 4 levels.....
In my humble opinion......we are sometimes our worst enemies......we create our own problems so to speak.
How many people would go out and get certified for billiard instruction if it were done with the idea that ok ...lets put some instructors out there and let them go to it.....and build up some new players in this country?
I dont know but the 900 or so is a detractor for me. Im not going to pay that and give away lessons to hopefully get some that will pay to only have them say I cant afford your time and want a deal on the time, then in order to get to the next level of instruction you have to do so many hours likely by giving it away and log it on their system in order to be allowed to cough up another load of money for another block of instruction to be allowed to operate at the next level.????
It seems that you are right and we are basically Pool Snobs and that for me seems like its nuts. I have to go out at night to pool leagues and recruit players for lessons, when its really not in their best interest or the leagues best interest for them to get better. Something nuts about that whole thing.
What would be wrong with simply showing up at the Pool Room and say hey Im interested in learning to play pool? and the owner saying..ok tell you what I will get you in touch with Bill or Sam or whoever...and let him show you a few things...then work out something with Bill or Sam to let him know his time is appreciated and then put them into a house league.....or some form of organized play....
It seems to me that the owners a lot of them are complacent when it comes to promoting their business because they would like people to just come in and play and them not have to do anything to keep the players organized....well all the pool league systems are counting on that...so they educate players the way they want to and there you go.....profits follow activity, thats about all I know to say and still be nice about it, someone isnt getting paid unfortunately but unfortunately due to the pool league system its requiring owners to do much more than simply own pool room and billiard businesses and thats enough strain on anyone so therefore the pool league system exists in its current form. Perhaps it would be nice of the pool league systems to have events designed to get the room owners paid.......
In other words when it comes to pool the bleeding is everywhere......and no one seems to be able to man up and stop some of it....and rooms close all the time.....it is going to fix itself eventually because the sports bar is going to pool table less or maybe one or two tables.... and someone is going to have to open billiard clubs where the player pays for his time and I doubt seriously if billiard clubs are going to allow the pool leaguers to play for free......they wont be at the most popular locations but they will probably open for one thing.....Pool. Change is inevitable, we make it happen so why cant we control it?
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
:thumbup:
LastDimeTaker,
I have to agree with you that where there is a click it makes it harder to become accpepted and thats a shame. I went by the pool room last night...took a day off and just wanted to hit a few and it was league night....lots of people in there playing, drinking and socializing...which is a good thing..this was a house league managed by the house. League players of any kind dont tend to do a lot business at other times but some of them do and this particular league system tends to get folks whose interest is having a nite out to play and it brings in some "Real" players who are truly interested in learning the sport.
We can discuss things all day but in the end someone has to come up with some money to justify the effort spend on it.
I think and education program that were designed to be handed to the room owners to help them deal with new players might be a good thing. This would provide a packet of information for a new player and possibly this could include instructional information, discounts for pool time to bring him into the fold so to speak where he has some time to work on some skills and lets him enjoy his new found sport. What typically happens is interested parties get handed off to the pool league system and then the establishment sells them a beer or a soda if they have food maybe some of that. A lot of rooms who dont have a kitchen come up hurting in that situation.
Ive never understood why room owners havent come up with a way to provide education to players, instruction to players and then provide competition to player at a very local level.....maybe not advertise the small competitive events and keep that just for their people....so its more of a this is for my people kind of thing.......Their is a missing piece in this puzzle of education and intent and that is the.......... instructor......If billiard instruction costs out the wazoo then that doesnt help the sport...Surely everyone needs to get paid and sadly the country and the world is having problems with all of that.
No one including Instructors can afford to take their time up giving free lessons. Especially when it costs close to $1000 dollars to get the first level of certification and there are 4 levels.....
In my humble opinion......we are sometimes our worst enemies......we create our own problems so to speak.
How many people would go out and get certified for billiard instruction if it were done with the idea that ok ...lets put some instructors out there and let them go to it.....and build up some new players in this country?
I dont know but the 900 or so is a detractor for me. Im not going to pay that and give away lessons to hopefully get some that will pay to only have them say I cant afford your time and want a deal on the time, then in order to get to the next level of instruction you have to do so many hours likely by giving it away and log it on their system in order to be allowed to cough up another load of money for another block of instruction to be allowed to operate at the next level.????
It seems that you are right and we are basically Pool Snobs and that for me seems like its nuts. I have to go out at night to pool leagues and recruit players for lessons, when its really not in their best interest or the leagues best interest for them to get better. Something nuts about that whole thing.
What would be wrong with simply showing up at the Pool Room and say hey Im interested in learning to play pool? and the owner saying..ok tell you what I will get you in touch with Bill or Sam or whoever...and let him show you a few things...then work out something with Bill or Sam to let him know his time is appreciated and then put them into a house league.....or some form of organized play....
It seems to me that the owners a lot of them are complacent when it comes to promoting their business because they would like people to just come in and play and them not have to do anything to keep the players organized....well all the pool league systems are counting on that...so they educate players the way they want to and there you go.....profits follow activity, thats about all I know to say and still be nice about it, someone isnt getting paid unfortunately but unfortunately due to the pool league system its requiring owners to do much more than simply own pool room and billiard businesses and thats enough strain on anyone so therefore the pool league system exists in its current form. Perhaps it would be nice of the pool league systems to have events designed to get the room owners paid.......
In other words when it comes to pool the bleeding is everywhere......and no one seems to be able to man up and stop some of it....and rooms close all the time.....it is going to fix itself eventually because the sports bar is going to pool table less or maybe one or two tables.... and someone is going to have to open billiard clubs where the player pays for his time and I doubt seriously if billiard clubs are going to allow the pool leaguers to play for free......they wont be at the most popular locations but they will probably open for one thing.....Pool. Change is inevitable, we make it happen so why cant we control it?
Just another lovely day in paradise.....
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Last edited:
Start them out young. Utilize programs that promote kids playing for very low costs, and better yet allows them to get their own cue for low costs. My girls each have their own cues and were very excited to get them. I exposed them very young to the table, and just allowed them to join in with me as they aske to. What kid doesn't want to do what mommy or daddy are doing? Now I can't go down and play a game without them running down to play with me, and they usually ask me to play at least a few times a week. It breaks into my time to play, and I can usually only play a real game when they are in bed, but I would rather spend time with them anyways. Hopefully it will carry over as they grow, and it will be something we can do at a more serious level as they get older. None the less, start them out young to learn to enjoy it, and eventually build a foundation of fundamental skill that will allow them to enjoy the game as they grow. I think many like pool, but don't play consistently because of the frustration with not being able to play at a successful level, and the difficulty getting there. You can avoid that with some basic instruction when they are young. That would be my way of promoting the sport.
Free table time for kids 16 and under (maybe free 12 and under and discounted 13-16 depending on the halls clientele already) and discounted time for adults that bring a hild with them. I would also have youth tournaments with small fees and gift cards to the pro shop to purchase equipment or lessons as prizes. I'd also have the occasional youth group lesson for free. Do this for a few years, and the hall will have a whole group of youth that will be coming in for years to come.
Free table time for kids 16 and under (maybe free 12 and under and discounted 13-16 depending on the halls clientele already) and discounted time for adults that bring a hild with them. I would also have youth tournaments with small fees and gift cards to the pro shop to purchase equipment or lessons as prizes. I'd also have the occasional youth group lesson for free. Do this for a few years, and the hall will have a whole group of youth that will be coming in for years to come.
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Well, my son just turned 13 and is on his way to becoming a solid B player any day now already. My 7 yr old daughter is also always asking to go play with us.
I'm going to talk to the wife about trying to create a new pool player tonight.
Creating new players
Not a thing wrong with that.......
Just another lovely day in paradise.......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
Not a thing wrong with that.......
Just another lovely day in paradise.......
336Robin :thumbup:
aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
