What Killed Straight Pool?
- Thread starter 9 Ball Girl
- Start date
9 Ball Girl said:
9BG,
Your first couple of sentences really says alot. There is nothing stoping straight pool from returning to many venues. If the DCC wanted to replace one pocket with a shorter form of straight pool, it could very well do so. I am sure the attendence would not drop by fans and players alike. I think people would love to see top players playing straight pool. Its the promoters (big tournament promoters) who for the most part refuse to hold a straight pool events. Second, TV and pool are for the most part worthless. It seems that alot of people in the pool business think that TV is the way to go. When in reality, I think, that tv for pool has brought almost zero attention (at least up until this date) to the sporting public and the general public.
TV only wants a fast food item. Straight pool has to evolve like 9-ball evolved. To clarify, 9-ball as fast as a game can be (time wise), evolved into 7-ball on espn so the matches can be played faster with more ball-in-hand seceniros so the matches would be done quicker. Straight pool if to be played in a venue or on tv needs to do the same.
Example: Race to 2 (2 out of 3 games), 50 pts each game, 1 free intentional foul, 2nd intentional foul, incomming player gets ball in hand anywhere on table....
I think for the most part, players who actually played straight pool on a semi-regular basis, in a straight pool league or on a regular basis, understands all of the wonderful neauances of the game and really appreicates them, just like they appreiate the same for One Pocket. The sporting public and the general public to accecpt these games needs to see fast food version if it is going to be on TV or held a venue where alot of fans are in attendance.
Our society ...
It is just not in Pool, but in many things within our society,
we are now the 'instant gratification' society. Everything
has to be faster, better, with more payback.
Look at people playing cards nowdays. Use to play gin,
rummy 500, double deck pinochle, bridge. Now they play
faster games for the most part like hold'em, 6 card pitch,
tonk where the turnover per hand is faster.
I expect them to come out with a faster chess in the future
and call it checkers or something ... lol
When the action is faster paced and the reward comes
sooner, it is more exciting for a crowd. That's why
action movies do well at the box office for the most part.
And that's why 9 ball and 8 ball are popular in lieu of
14.1.
Even me, I would rather watch a good Basketball game
than a Football game. I love indoor soccer, but am bored
with outdoor soccer.
It is all just a part of the faster, bigger, better mentality
that has ingrained itself into our country. Pool is a little
bit like Archery in some respects, everyone like to try it
now and then, those that grow interested in it, love
the sport, and they have many tournaments, but there
is no big crowd there watching, just a few. But why
couldn't Archery become as popular as Golf? Similiar
style sports, it could be televised, crowds could follow.
The difficulty level is about the same for being really
good. The reason I think is because Archery is kind
of a gypsy sport, just the same as Pool was through
many decades, and now it is trying to grow into a
mainstream sport without the proper groundwork
being laid first.
My brother and I grew up with Bows and Arrows,
because my paternal grandfather made them as
a hobby. I shot my first rabbit with a bow. I went
Bow fishing as a kid. My brother went on after he
grew up to be state indoor champion 3 times, and
outdoor champion 4 times, and placed 11th in the
world in Australia (8 years after his prime).
Val is absolutely correct, kids have to grow up with
it and be educated about it, and their have to
be high standard roads for them to pursue with it,
like the College teams and the Olympics.
They did it for Soccer, it can be done for Pool.
Soccer was just a pasttime before school started
when I was in grade school, look at it now.
It is just not in Pool, but in many things within our society,
we are now the 'instant gratification' society. Everything
has to be faster, better, with more payback.
Look at people playing cards nowdays. Use to play gin,
rummy 500, double deck pinochle, bridge. Now they play
faster games for the most part like hold'em, 6 card pitch,
tonk where the turnover per hand is faster.
I expect them to come out with a faster chess in the future
and call it checkers or something ... lol
When the action is faster paced and the reward comes
sooner, it is more exciting for a crowd. That's why
action movies do well at the box office for the most part.
And that's why 9 ball and 8 ball are popular in lieu of
14.1.
Even me, I would rather watch a good Basketball game
than a Football game. I love indoor soccer, but am bored
with outdoor soccer.
It is all just a part of the faster, bigger, better mentality
that has ingrained itself into our country. Pool is a little
bit like Archery in some respects, everyone like to try it
now and then, those that grow interested in it, love
the sport, and they have many tournaments, but there
is no big crowd there watching, just a few. But why
couldn't Archery become as popular as Golf? Similiar
style sports, it could be televised, crowds could follow.
The difficulty level is about the same for being really
good. The reason I think is because Archery is kind
of a gypsy sport, just the same as Pool was through
many decades, and now it is trying to grow into a
mainstream sport without the proper groundwork
being laid first.
My brother and I grew up with Bows and Arrows,
because my paternal grandfather made them as
a hobby. I shot my first rabbit with a bow. I went
Bow fishing as a kid. My brother went on after he
grew up to be state indoor champion 3 times, and
outdoor champion 4 times, and placed 11th in the
world in Australia (8 years after his prime).
Val is absolutely correct, kids have to grow up with
it and be educated about it, and their have to
be high standard roads for them to pursue with it,
like the College teams and the Olympics.
They did it for Soccer, it can be done for Pool.
Soccer was just a pasttime before school started
when I was in grade school, look at it now.
whitewolf said:[...]
Back in the 60s and 70s at the Sportsman in Roanoke Va., I hardly ever saw anyone shooting 14.1. It was 8 ball, 9 ball, or one-pocket. Granted, this is a red neck city, and I believe that back then in the majority of the US cities that were averaged size or smaller, STRAIGHT POOL WAS NEVER REALLY VERY POPULAR. In my 'Winning One Pocket' book (the second one - can't remember its name), Roanoke Va. BTW is listed quite a few times as a tournament siteto my surprise.
I learned to play pool as a teenager at the town rec center in suburban NYC (Harrison) in in about 1969-1972. There was one table, so it was a king-of-the-hill thing like you might find in a bar. What did we play?
We played what I knew as FIFTEEN, which was 14.1 played to 15.
Sound silly?
Think how exciting a game of 14.1 to 150 becomes when it's 135 to 135, even amongst average players--in fact, especially amongst average players. Unlike in a longer game, here any decent player is a threat to get out any time he can open up the balls. Defense was important, and knowing how to open up the next rack was important.
mike page
fargo
sliqueshot
Registered
I think straight pool is just boring to watch. In the Philippines, we play a lot of 15 ball rotation but they have never a 15 ball rotation event in a tournament cuz it will be boring especially with the safety defense and all that which is not favorable to watch in TV especially to casual fans. But I dunno why, golf is boring to watch either but they generate a lot of sponsor and money and good ratings. I guess there are a lot of people who play golf as their hobby more than people who take billiards. I mean poker too is boring to watch it live but because ESPN show all the best part good for TV, it became intriguing. I think they should do that in billiards, they should show the best part not only focusing on one matchup but everywhere and show all the great shots.
Straight pool is not boring! Only players who couldn't continue the rack or haven't got a clue about pool would say that! So what if there are a few more defense moves than in 9ball?
Yes, in 9ball you do see fancy power shots sometimes, but there are negative sides as well. Do you think that racking the balls for 5 minutes is exciting to watch? Huge luck factor? How about those damn commercials after almost every single game? Extremely slow players who kill the game? With two fast players, you'll spend more time watching commercials than live pool, lol.
Bottom line...for any billiard game you could say that it is 'boring'. Cue sports are only appreciated by true fans/players, not general public. That's how it should be I think.
Yes, in 9ball you do see fancy power shots sometimes, but there are negative sides as well. Do you think that racking the balls for 5 minutes is exciting to watch? Huge luck factor? How about those damn commercials after almost every single game? Extremely slow players who kill the game? With two fast players, you'll spend more time watching commercials than live pool, lol.
Bottom line...for any billiard game you could say that it is 'boring'. Cue sports are only appreciated by true fans/players, not general public. That's how it should be I think.
Well, for one, golf is a white collar sport and pool is a blue collar sport.sliqueshot said:
matthew staton
Banned
9 Ball Girl said:
straight pool is boring and table rates did not help straight pool and those 3 guys at the pool hall that think it's funny to run a 100 balls on ya well having a beer laughing at ya sitting and watching wishing that they might just miss but they won't...
I personally think 14.1 is a great game. But I cant stand all these guys that permeate around the game. Like classical pianists they expect you to sit in your chair with your hands in your lap and not utter a word and then arguing about every friggin rule in the book. Then clap lightly when they execute a high run. Pool does not take place at Carnegie Hall or the Metropolitan Opera. It takes place in a pool hall.
When Fats played Fast Eddie straight pool in Ames it was colorful. The way Danny Diliberto used to play it. Like a prize fight with two warriors checking each other out. Or ;when Mizerak used to break clusters and break your balls at the same time. The straight pool players Ive played with are always whining about sharking because you were keeping time with the music with your head or talking to the waitress as she flirts with you. Asking for a ref every time you have to masse or jump a ball. This even when we are playing for table time. For chrissakes its being played in a pool hall not a British mens club. Or whether the ferrel hitting the cueball when taking a scratch. Causing a 15 point loss instead of one point. Dont laugh I saw Dallas West call it on Efren Reyes.
Could you imagine basketball or baseball played this way. Damn whats missing is the excitement in the game where one can involve himself in it totally.
When Fats played Fast Eddie straight pool in Ames it was colorful. The way Danny Diliberto used to play it. Like a prize fight with two warriors checking each other out. Or ;when Mizerak used to break clusters and break your balls at the same time. The straight pool players Ive played with are always whining about sharking because you were keeping time with the music with your head or talking to the waitress as she flirts with you. Asking for a ref every time you have to masse or jump a ball. This even when we are playing for table time. For chrissakes its being played in a pool hall not a British mens club. Or whether the ferrel hitting the cueball when taking a scratch. Causing a 15 point loss instead of one point. Dont laugh I saw Dallas West call it on Efren Reyes.
Could you imagine basketball or baseball played this way. Damn whats missing is the excitement in the game where one can involve himself in it totally.
matthew staton said:
When I was playing just a few hours a week back in the mid-1990's, I used to practice straight pool with Tony Robles at Corner Billiards. He ran over 200 on me on several occasions.
I was told by the room proprietor that I wouldn't have to pay any table time when I played Tony. Seemed pretty fair, as I typically got about 65 or 70 to his 150, and I spent most of my time stuck in the chair. I remember telling the room proprietor "good, that way I don't have to say 'time off' every time I miss!"
Even people who love 14.1 have to think its unrealistic for it to be on tv any time soon. Things move way too fast these days for 14.1 to survive unless its on satelite, digital cable, or internet downloadable.
I don't want to hear Mitch Laurence talk about 14.1 anyway.
What I don't understand is why they don't have a major 14.1 tourney in the US sponsored by the BCA that is around the same time as a major 9-ball or 8-ball event. The DCC idea is a good one but I think having a 14.1 tourney for a US champion would do well. If the pros are already there for the US OPEN 9-ball or a similair tourney, I think enough players would be interested to try and become the US 14.1 champ. Accu-Stats or worldpool.com could tape it and I'm sure they would sell plenty of tapes.
I think the title still has prestige, I just don't think anyone is going to go too far out of their way to get an event going.
How about every three to four years the 14.1 event at the DCC is played with official rules and is the US OPEN. All the players are there, the event could be filmed and marketed, and we would at least have a championship every three years instead of the current limbo we're in.
I don't want to hear Mitch Laurence talk about 14.1 anyway.
What I don't understand is why they don't have a major 14.1 tourney in the US sponsored by the BCA that is around the same time as a major 9-ball or 8-ball event. The DCC idea is a good one but I think having a 14.1 tourney for a US champion would do well. If the pros are already there for the US OPEN 9-ball or a similair tourney, I think enough players would be interested to try and become the US 14.1 champ. Accu-Stats or worldpool.com could tape it and I'm sure they would sell plenty of tapes.
I think the title still has prestige, I just don't think anyone is going to go too far out of their way to get an event going.
How about every three to four years the 14.1 event at the DCC is played with official rules and is the US OPEN. All the players are there, the event could be filmed and marketed, and we would at least have a championship every three years instead of the current limbo we're in.
The sad truth is that even the people at Accu-Stats seem to find 14.1 boring. Ever watch the "Hall of Fame Dinner Show" match between Mosconi and Caras? They keep cutting away from the game to show interviews. They couldn't put the interviews at the end of the tape? It's as though they can't believe that someone could sit through an entire game of Straight Pool without falling asleep. And that's a game between two Straight Pool gods. Sad.
I agree that tv has played a big part in taking interest away from straight pool. I don't agree about the bar table. I played straight all my life but also played whatever I could on a bar table. This did not build my interest in playing 8 ball in a pool room.
What about the lack of attention span of our youth? The laziness of our youth? They actually have to LEARN how to play. To them, straight is too hard to learn, takes too much time and requires actual thinking and memory retention.
Roscoe
What about the lack of attention span of our youth? The laziness of our youth? They actually have to LEARN how to play. To them, straight is too hard to learn, takes too much time and requires actual thinking and memory retention.
Roscoe